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Crystal Palace in the Premier League.
Saturday 24th August 2019, KO 15:00 BST.
DaveMart
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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: FA Cup vs Wolves (a)

Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:04 pm

Ole was bang on and totally honest in saying that that was a very poor performance.

What he did not say and in no way implied was that this is a poor team.

Of course, our inability to select the right manager has resulted in a haphazard recruitment policy, with each manager prioritising different strengths, and only a fool would not realise that City and perhaps Liverpool are some way ahead of us.

I am happy that we have found the United way again, have a manager who tells the truth, and could not give a darn that it is possible that Jose might have found a way to grind out a result playing anti-football.

In the process he destroyed the spirit of the team, to its ultimate detriment.

We are on the right track, and should have the guts to realise that setbacks will occur, but are there to be overcome.



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: FA Cup vs Wolves (a)

Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:36 pm

DaveMart wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:04 pm
Ole was bang on and totally honest in saying that that was a very poor performance.

What he did not say and in no way implied was that this is a poor team.

Of course, our inability to select the right manager has resulted in a haphazard recruitment policy, with each manager prioritising different strengths, and only a fool would not realise that City and perhaps Liverpool are some way ahead of us.

I am happy that we have found the United way again, have a manager who tells the truth, and could not give a darn that it is possible that Jose might have found a way to grind out a result playing anti-football.

In the process he destroyed the spirit of the team, to its ultimate detriment.

We are on the right track, and should have the guts to realise that setbacks will occur, but are there to be overcome.

Quite spot on

We are on the right track in terms of team spirit

I don't think this is a poor team
I think it is mostly average with the exception of 5 class players(DDG,Shaw,Rashford,Martial and Pogba)
5 is not enough to challenge for anything important is it
That is the challenge of the board,the manager(when we have one) and a director of football(if we get one)

When you say "our" inability to select the right manager i would strongly point out that one man and one man alone ie Ed Woodward has selected every wrong manager
As far as i am aware he is the only one making the current decision,with the obvious input of the great football brains that are the Glazer family

Now that's a frightening thought for me



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: FA Cup vs Wolves (a)

Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:35 pm

Agreed those are the players which would get into most teams at the moment.

But we now have a manager who will develop players, and that takes time.

So I can see that it is possible, although of course not inevitable, that Pereira, Fred, McTominay, Dalot and perhaps some of the youngsters like Greenwood will come through for us.

Raheem Sterling was incredibly wasteful until Pep developed him into the player he is today.

I prefer that to the idea of going out spending a hundred million or so for players at the top, then finding out they often don't fit in.

Woodward clearly bears a lot of responsibility, but that is as much or more for not getting the manager right as the players.

Once they had a manager in situ, then they have to be guided by them, to create the teams they want for their style.

Several different managers meant several different policies.

To our credit, we were always looking for a long term manager, not trying to do a Chelsea, but without SAF at the helm we were all over the place, Woodward included, as SAF knows rather more about players than he, as he would be likely to admit.

But we did not have a SAF.

We did spend loads of money, including the huge wages for Sanchez, which has simply led to the likes of DDG demanding parity, or feeling miffed if they don't get it as they are clearly performing far better than he.

That is the likeliest cause of DDG leaving in my view, even more than failure to qualify for the CL

Ole though deserves all the support of us humble fans, as well as the board, so a poor game changes nothing.



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: FA Cup vs Wolves (a)

Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:55 pm

Again i agree with a lot of what you say but the glaring points t me are
1 You agree that Woodward has to be blamed for manager selection but then you say he "has to be guided" by his manager.
So why when Jose gave him a list of 5 defenders(Never denied) did Jose get none

2 You say "We now have a manager that will develop players"
As far as i am aware Ole has not been appointed as the manager and nobody i discuss with knows what the hell is going on.If anything
There may be all sorts of interviews and decision making going on.I hope so as these are precious times to make the right decision
Only time will tell us who the new manager is
There are two camps.
One wants Ole for what he has achieved already which to be fair is attacking football but not much else.
Out of the FA Cup to what should have been an inferior team.
Getting back in a distant top 4 chase as much because the other teams have faltered
And a magnificent result in Paris despite having less than 30% possession

I predict ole will get the managers job if we get a top 4 position
If we don't and we get a dicking by Barca in the Champions league and City in the Premier league then somebody else will get it

3 You sat DDG is demanding a large wage becaiuse of Sanchez
I don't know where that comes from
You may be correct
I personally believe he should get a massive salary for being the worlds number 1
I have no idea,without using the words penny pinching they have let his contract run down
You wouldn't rule out Woodward trying to sell him,again
that would be criminal so we will have to wait and see what summer brings

4 You say that "Ole deserves the support of the humble fans as well as the board"
Well the fans support him as shown by all the singing at the games
Why haven't the board supported him?
Well is it penny pinching or are they going to let him down as he clearly wants the job
Wait and see



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: FA Cup vs Wolves (a)

Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:33 pm

Ray, I do wish you would not endlessly go on about your hobby horse.

We not only have spent massively, if not very wisely, but we have the highest(?) wage bill in the Prem, or if not thereabouts.

Season ticket prices are also the same for the eighth year in a row, so if they are penny-pinching, they are not very good at it.

And I think Woodward and the board just got fed up with Jose, whose tried and trusted technique is to demand absolutely top price players, fail to do much with many of those he has or has bought, and then to blame failures on the board for not buying Messi and Ronaldo when he said he fancied them both.

He had a lot of what he asked, but it eventually dried up, as his performance did not warrant what he was asking for.

How about giving is a rest about the Glaziers and Woodward, and just making the posts using your undoubted knowledge of football?

It is pretty depressing just reading, or ignoring, post after post whinging.

I said in another post, I reckon Ole screwed up in his last selection, but he has done an awful lot right, and I can't think of anyone I would rather have at the moment.

I don't want another jobbing big name. I want the United way, even if we still have shortcomings.



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: FA Cup vs Wolves (a)

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:23 pm

DaveMart wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:33 pm
Ray, I do wish you would not endlessly go on about your hobby horse.

We not only have spent massively, if not very wisely, but we have the highest(?) wage bill in the Prem, or if not thereabouts.

Season ticket prices are also the same for the eighth year in a row, so if they are penny-pinching, they are not very good at it.

And I think Woodward and the board just got fed up with Jose, whose tried and trusted technique is to demand absolutely top price players, fail to do much with many of those he has or has bought, and then to blame failures on the board for not buying Messi and Ronaldo when he said he fancied them both.

He had a lot of what he asked, but it eventually dried up, as his performance did not warrant what he was asking for.

How about giving is a rest about the Glaziers and Woodward, and just making the posts using your undoubted knowledge of football?

It is pretty depressing just reading, or ignoring, post after post whinging.

I said in another post, I reckon Ole screwed up in his last selection, but he has done an awful lot right, and I can't think of anyone I would rather have at the moment.

I don't want another jobbing big name. I want the United way, even if we still have shortcomings.
Just for information they have put up the prices of the lounge tickets by 40% ie almost £800
They claim they are refurbishing them and as such the 500 members in the suites they are refurbishing have to pay an extra £800
The pizzeria i go in is also having a paint job so i hope i don't have to pay another fiver a pizza

I really do hate going on about money but the fact is that money and not style or trophies come first with this club and as such it is hard to get away from
I don't share your beliefs on investment and i believe i am allowed to have a different opinion to you
Not that your opinion is wrong though

Let's play a game for fun
Let's wait until the end of this season and see
1 Where we finish in the league
2 Who will the appointed manager be
3 Will we finally have a football brain helping the manager,whoever he is out
4 Will the board wrire off the shit players by selling them or just abandon them ie Sanchez,Lukaku
5 Let's analyse who we get as with a neutral hat on if that is possible.We still need a shed load of players which will be a combination of developed and bought players,if we are to challenge for anything important

What do you say?
We are not long away from the end of the season when everything needs to start being cleared
Shall we have this conversation in 8/10 weeks?



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: FA Cup vs Wolves (a)

Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:42 pm

Ray, I don't give any guarantees of success, but think we at least have a shot currently, but turning things around is going to take time and there will be setbacks.

You should realise though that what you so frequently post here, repeatedly, is a bit like being in the United stand and endlessly booing the boys.
You would be the first to feel they deserved a punch in the head!

No one denies you the right to have an opinion, but endless negativity about our club hardly helps.

If the owners are skinflints they are hardly in the Tottenham league, and if indecisive managerially they are no Chelsea.

They relied on SAF, and it is difficult for people without football expertise to find a way when a genius retires.

Never ascribe to malice that which incompetence can explain.

Your opinion is your own, but being too bilious about the club all the time is not very helpful, and understandably gets others annoyed.

Contribute a bit more of your football knowledge a bit more, if you can Ray, and just tone down a bit moaning all the time!

Cheers.



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Colin Francis
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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: FA Cup vs Wolves (a)

Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:18 am

I'm not sure how to say it without sounding negative and perhaps if I were to say we did not win or draw it would be acceptable. Outwitted, outplayed


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raycreative
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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: FA Cup vs Wolves (a)

Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:15 pm

Colin Francis wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:18 am
I'm not sure how to say it without sounding negative and perhaps if I were to say we did not win or draw it would be acceptable. Outwitted, outplayed
Got it in one and very few words needed to say it

To be positive i know that we were positively outwitted and outplayed.And for the second week running
Same tactics(Pogba too far wide to have any input on the game and let's face it he is our key man)
Same very very slow build up for the second week running.If this was Jose's team they would have been screaming from the terraces
Same almost stubborn refusal from ole to change the tactics during a game,that are clearly not working.

Yes Dave it will take time but we have been saying that since SAF left Moyes with an aged and tiring team
He left LVG with not much more but he did get us an FA cup win because on the positive side none of the top teams tried too hard
After LVG left,as his tactics were not approved we got Jose who needed time to turn it around
He won the UEFA cup but asked the board for backing in defence which he did not get so threw the dummy out of the pram

Now we have Ole or rather we might or don't have him and if not him then who?
Yes it will take time.A bloody long time if the desire is around to indeed change
Yes it is the same old song and the same old message but until the notes on the music sheet change the truth will hurt

I am the first one to want success but the message is boring me know
TWO CENTRE HALVES,A RIGHT BACK and A RIGHT WINGER
plus
A MANAGER and a DIRECTOR OF FOOTBALL

nothing but nothing is going to change until all that is in place.And the longer it takes the further shitty city will get ahead of us.
And that hurts



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Colin Francis
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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: FA Cup vs Wolves (a)

Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:15 am

I would throw in a central midfielder as well Ray.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: FA Cup vs Wolves (a)

Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:41 pm

Colin Francis wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:15 am
I would throw in a central midfielder as well Ray.

I can't argue with that either
He needs to be a Roy Keane type player who is both a captain and capable of getting wired in and letting you know he is about

Having said that i don't want to be too negative :laugh: :laugh:



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Sigmar
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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: FA Cup vs Wolves (a)

Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:10 pm

Colin Francis wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:18 am
I'm not sure how to say it without sounding negative and perhaps if I were to say we did not win or draw it would be acceptable. Outwitted, outplayed
Personally I felt we had taken a step back and resorted to Jose style football, we just didn't seem to have any pace or ideas.
As Ole said, it was a poor performance, perhaps relying on returning players puts some of the blame on his shoulders, he must have felt they were fit enough to play.
The international break has come at a fairly good time, it gives us a chance to take stock and re-group.

Before you ask, yes I do still think he should get the job.


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