Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs Tottenham (a)

[Goku]

Review

I had a sneaky feeling we will win this one. The change of tactics in the second half was basically long ball, we don't win the second ball, and a lot of crosses.

We could have scored the second but we do need a commanding center back like Rio and a Vida partnership.

A game of two halves and it is a sign of a good team to win when you put under pressure.

This team can only get better.

Good result but in time the team will get back to the top if we get the missing link.

[raycreative]

De Gea needs to sign now.

How the f++k have we let his contract run down to the wire yet again
What do the management want from this lad???

[Sandies]

My first ever game and what an experience
What a result
What a difference in the side
And what an joy it was to experience that from De Gea. I’m in awe of what he just did and so thankful I got to witness that

Being at the game gave me a different view on things. I realized what a great job Herrera and Lingard do, and what a cohesive unit we have become.

Don’t discredit Ole either, he knew exactly what the game needed and how to break spurs. A proper away performance

[Glorio]

So looking at what's happened so far, do these look like the same players from just a few weeks before under the 3rd season ticking porcupine that was José? No - it's no wonder though, because José always gave the impression and spoke as though our players are useless. Again, bar the central defense, that's just untrue.

IMO the manager himself with his self destructive tendencies eroded the confidence in the team. I don't think they downed tools personally. I think they were unhappy and completely bereft of confidence. I saw a lot of the players toil away in many games, but it looked like hard, tedious work, and nobody wanted to be there. If 3/4 years ago you were told we would have Martial, Rashford, Sanchez, Pogba, Mata, Lukaku in the same team, you would have thought it would make a lethal team, suddenly José comes along this season and sells to everyone that they overachieved to come even second. He convinced most that everyone - the board, the actual generation, the players, the fan expectations, everything apart from him were the problem. After matching just about everyone for squad investment in the last few years, could they really have been that poor?

It's easy to sit and blame the players for hanging him out to dry, but anyone who has worked for anyone, or managed any team knows that a happier, more motivated team performs a lot better and delivers better results. It's a fact of life, it doesn't mean they downed tools - there's an energy that pulls that extra out of people who buy in to, believe in, and enjoy what they're doing. If you spend time criticising everyone and declaring how great you are, you (in this case the manager) become the disruptor. Again, ironically, In this case, it WAS the manager.

I read an article about how demanding and paranoid he became of all the staff in his third season. Heard he wanted Yorke sacked as an ambassador because he questioned the style of play, and threw a major tantrum when he didn't get his wish. Could be smoke and mirrors, but from what we saw of him, it's very likely

[ArizonaRed]

If a Mourinho team had turned in this performance, we would be calling it a MASTER CLASS coaching job and Mourinho would be gathering all the praise for it. On the other hand Ole; gives all the credit to his players; but make no mistake about it, this was a great strategic game plan put together by Ole and his staff. Maybe Ole’s greatest achievement from this game was selling his plan to the players and having them buy into it. They were confidant and totally fearless and played like they believed that they were going to win.

Having a football philosophy or style is great, developing strategies and tactics that dismantle the opposition is wonderful, giving inspirational speeches and making the players feel good about themselves is all part of being a manager. What I believe sets the great managers apart from the very good ones is their ability to; evaluate the talent at their disposal and mold those players into a cohesive team that is better than the sum of its parts. They are able to get the absolute maximum out of every team member and to get them to work as a team. This is what Ole and his staff did this Sunday against Spurs.

Of course, having GOAL - David de Gea build a barricade across his goal mouth doesn’t hurt either.

While the club is performing its due diligence in search for a “long term” manager/coach, I hope they do not let a shinny reputation blind them to what they already have at home.

[raycreative]

If a Mourinho team had turned in this performance, we would be calling it a MASTER CLASS coaching job and Mourinho would be gathering all the praise for it. On the other hand Ole; gives all the credit to his players; but make no mistake about it, this was a great strategic game plan put together by Ole and his staff. Maybe Ole’s greatest achievement from this game was selling his plan to the players and having them buy into it. They were confidant and totally fearless and played like they believed that they were going to win.

Having a football philosophy or style is great, developing strategies and tactics that dismantle the opposition is wonderful, giving inspirational speeches and making the players feel good about themselves is all part of being a manager. What I believe sets the great managers apart from the very good ones is their ability to; evaluate the talent at their disposal and mold those players into a cohesive team that is better than the sum of its parts. They are able to get the absolute maximum out of every team member and to get them to work as a team. This is what Ole and his staff did this Sunday against Spurs.

Of course, having GOAL - David de Gea build a barricade across his goal mouth doesn’t hurt either.

While the club is performing its due diligence in search for a “long term” manager/coach, I hope they do not let a shinny reputation blind them to what they already have at home.

I am not quite sure what game you were watching
If a Mourhino team had turned in this performance you and a lot of others would have berated him for "parking the bus"

Was this Ole's team tactics or were they Alex Fergusons team tactics at the start?
We will never know will we.
what i did see at half time was a good tactical move from Poccetino to put the game in a position that we were forced back to defend
Two disallowed goals and 4 or 5 brilliant saves from DDg showed me how weak we still are in the centre of defence and still not a smell of a Virgil van Dijk being found or even looked for
After all centre halves don't sell shirts do they

Bu all means enjoy what is going on.
I am
But don't get carried away with the thought that Ole is a better manager than Matt Busby,Alex Ferguson or even Jose Mourhino

Ole has Manchester United genes and he loves this club.
i and many others love him for that, but stop dissing Jose and don't forget what the aim of this club should be
It it not top 4(which by the way we still aren't quite yet
It is to challenge for the league and Champions league and we are a long long way from that

[Kinnell]

You make good points Ray and we shouldn't go overboard but I must say I'm enjoying watching United again.

However,no matter how much Ole changes things it will make no difference whatsoever unless the regime who own this club have a complete change of policy and make FOOTBALL the prime purpose of this 'business'

Do I see any signs of change?....afraid not.

[Relly]

My first ever game and what an experience
What a result
What a difference in the side
And what an joy it was to experience that from De Gea. I’m in awe of what he just did and so thankful I got to witness that

Being at the game gave me a different view on things. I realized what a great job Herrera and Lingard do, and what a cohesive unit we have become.

Don’t discredit Ole either, he knew exactly what the game needed and how to break spurs. A proper away performance

That must have been awesome going to your first game, you picked a good one and a good period for the club.

[RED3bution]

So looking at what's happened so far, do these look like the same players from just a few weeks before under the 3rd season ticking porcupine that was José? No - it's no wonder though, because José always gave the impression and spoke as though our players are useless. Again, bar the central defense, that's just untrue.

IMO the manager himself with his self destructive tendencies eroded the confidence in the team. I don't think they downed tools personally. I think they were unhappy and completely bereft of confidence. I saw a lot of the players toil away in many games, but it looked like hard, tedious work, and nobody wanted to be there. If 3/4 years ago you were told we would have Martial, Rashford, Sanchez, Pogba, Mata, Lukaku in the same team, you would have thought it would make a lethal team, suddenly José comes along this season and sells to everyone that they overachieved to come even second. He convinced most that everyone - the board, the actual generation, the players, the fan expectations, everything apart from him were the problem. After matching just about everyone for squad investment in the last few years, could they really have been that poor?

It's easy to sit and blame the players for hanging him out to dry, but anyone who has worked for anyone, or managed any team knows that a happier, more motivated team performs a lot better and delivers better results. It's a fact of life, it doesn't mean they downed tools - there's an energy that pulls that extra out of people who buy in to, believe in, and enjoy what they're doing. If you spend time criticising everyone and declaring how great you are, you (in this case the manager) become the disruptor. Again, ironically, In this case, it WAS the manager.

I read an article about how demanding and paranoid he became of all the staff in his third season. Heard he wanted Yorke sacked as an ambassador because he questioned the style of play, and threw a major tantrum when he didn't get his wish. Could be smoke and mirrors, but from what we saw of him, it's very likely

The only difference to our team is Pogba's performance, a huge improvement to say the least.

[Glorio]

Regarding getting carried away:

TBH - I'm not sure anyone is saying Ole is some Merlin-esque master. What I am saying though is that the terrible football we've been seeing was largely because of the toxic personality of 3rd season José. If you come second in the league one year, and before a ball is kicked, you start insinuating that the players you have were nowhere good enough to achieve that (basically your genius is what dragged the riff raffs along), and you start berating them publicly left, right, and centre; it's not rocket science, you'd end up with something broken. People are not machines. In addition to being a master tactician, you've got to man manage, and to do that, you have to actually respect your players.

As Redknapp said, forget Pogba for a second - everyone is playing better, and freer, and we're actually looking to attack first.
Lingard, Martial, and Rashford have been in the ranks for years - it's not rocket science to play them together and allow them express themselves. We never pressed high as a team before - now we're hunting in packs high up when we lose the ball, rather than sitting deep all the time (necessary some times).

Credit where it is due though, Ole is doing remarkably well so far, and sometimes you just need to work with someone with shared values - we never managed that with all previous managers.

[raycreative]

Regarding getting carried away:

TBH - I'm not sure anyone is saying Ole is some Merlin-esque master. What I am saying though is that the terrible football we've been seeing was largely because of the toxic personality of 3rd season José. If you come second in the league one year, and before a ball is kicked, you start insinuating that the players you have were nowhere good enough to achieve that (basically your genius is what dragged the riff raffs along), and you start berating them publicly left, right, and centre; it's not rocket science, you'd end up with something broken. People are not machines. In addition to being a master tactician, you've got to man manage, and to do that, you have to actually respect your players.

As Redknapp said, forget Pogba for a second - everyone is playing better, and freer, and we're actually looking to attack first.
Lingard, Martial, and Rashford have been in the ranks for years - it's not rocket science to play them together and allow them express themselves. We never pressed high as a team before - now we're hunting in packs high up when we lose the ball, rather than sitting deep all the time (necessary some times).

Credit where it is due though, Ole is doing remarkably well so far, and sometimes you just need to work with someone with shared values - we never managed that with all previous managers.

Totally agree with all above but why not go deeper and ask why Jose went toxic on this team or indeed why does he go toxic on any team
My opinion is that when he feels the club is no longer putting winning first he "does his own thing" to prove his point

I am totally convinced that having been let down by Ed Woodward and the Glazers he did things his way with the sole intent of getting the bullet
It will be interesting to see where and how he reappears because he will you know and probably win a league or better somewhere

[Glorio]

So looking at what's happened so far, do these look like the same players from just a few weeks before under the 3rd season ticking porcupine that was José? No - it's no wonder though, because José always gave the impression and spoke as though our players are useless. Again, bar the central defense, that's just untrue.

IMO the manager himself with his self destructive tendencies eroded the confidence in the team. I don't think they downed tools personally. I think they were unhappy and completely bereft of confidence. I saw a lot of the players toil away in many games, but it looked like hard, tedious work, and nobody wanted to be there. If 3/4 years ago you were told we would have Martial, Rashford, Sanchez, Pogba, Mata, Lukaku in the same team, you would have thought it would make a lethal team, suddenly José comes along this season and sells to everyone that they overachieved to come even second. He convinced most that everyone - the board, the actual generation, the players, the fan expectations, everything apart from him were the problem. After matching just about everyone for squad investment in the last few years, could they really have been that poor?

It's easy to sit and blame the players for hanging him out to dry, but anyone who has worked for anyone, or managed any team knows that a happier, more motivated team performs a lot better and delivers better results. It's a fact of life, it doesn't mean they downed tools - there's an energy that pulls that extra out of people who buy in to, believe in, and enjoy what they're doing. If you spend time criticising everyone and declaring how great you are, you (in this case the manager) become the disruptor. Again, ironically, In this case, it WAS the manager.

I read an article about how demanding and paranoid he became of all the staff in his third season. Heard he wanted Yorke sacked as an ambassador because he questioned the style of play, and threw a major tantrum when he didn't get his wish. Could be smoke and mirrors, but from what we saw of him, it's very likely

The only difference to our team is Pogba's performance, a huge improvement to say the least.

And not Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Herrera, Matic? Even De Gea!

[ArizonaRed]

If a Mourinho team had turned in this performance, we would be calling it a MASTER CLASS coaching job and Mourinho would be gathering all the praise for it. On the other hand Ole; gives all the credit to his players; but make no mistake about it, this was a great strategic game plan put together by Ole and his staff. Maybe Ole’s greatest achievement from this game was selling his plan to the players and having them buy into it. They were confidant and totally fearless and played like they believed that they were going to win.

Having a football philosophy or style is great, developing strategies and tactics that dismantle the opposition is wonderful, giving inspirational speeches and making the players feel good about themselves is all part of being a manager. What I believe sets the great managers apart from the very good ones is their ability to; evaluate the talent at their disposal and mold those players into a cohesive team that is better than the sum of its parts. They are able to get the absolute maximum out of every team member and to get them to work as a team. This is what Ole and his staff did this Sunday against Spurs.

Of course, having GOAL - David de Gea build a barricade across his goal mouth doesn’t hurt either.

While the club is performing its due diligence in search for a “long term” manager/coach, I hope they do not let a shinny reputation blind them to what they already have at home.

I am not quite sure what game you were watching
If a Mourhino team had turned in this performance you and a lot of others would have berated him for "parking the bus"

Was this Ole's team tactics or were they Alex Fergusons team tactics at the start?
We will never know will we.
what i did see at half time was a good tactical move from Poccetino to put the game in a position that we were forced back to defend
Two disallowed goals and 4 or 5 brilliant saves from DDg showed me how weak we still are in the centre of defence and still not a smell of a Virgil van Dijk being found or even looked for
After all centre halves don't sell shirts do they

Bu all means enjoy what is going on.
I am
But don't get carried away with the thought that Ole is a better manager than Matt Busby,Alex Ferguson or even Jose Mourhino

Ole has Manchester United genes and he loves this club.
i and many others love him for that, but stop dissing Jose and don't forget what the aim of this club should be
It it not top 4(which by the way we still aren't quite yet
It is to challenge for the league and Champions league and we are a long long way from that

Your hatred of the Glazers and most thing associated with United these days make you opinions questionable at best and totally worthless most of the time - your reply post is one of the worthless types. I am never surprised that you and I do not watch the same game, while the vast majority of fans watch the game for enjoyment, you appear to need to find something wrong so that you can then blame the Glazers. Your canonization of Mourinho has nothing to do with the style of football his teams played or results on the pitch, instead by your twisted logic if Mourinho isn’t at fault for our piss poor football then it must be Glazers and that suits your agenda.

Ole worked for Sir Alex for over 14 years and you appear surprised that he just might have picked up a few pointers about the type of football that he wants his team to play. I guess “We will never know will we”.

David deGea had an exceptional game, which is what I expect from the best goal keeper in football, but instead of being satisfied with a clean sheet you use deGea’s number of saves to complain about our defenders and not being able to find another van Dijk. Here a newsflash for you sunshine; there aren’t that many world class central defenders available regardless of the number of shirts they sell. You say that you are enjoying what is going on, but your actions are making a liar out of your words, I cannot remember any of your posts where you have had anything positive to say about the team and especially since Ole took over. I often wonder why you even bother posting on this or any forum, instead use the energy to build yourself a time machine and go live in whatever decade you would like.

[raycreative]

i would be very happy to live in the 1960's or the 1990's and watch United
Not only because i was watching world class footballers playing for United but also because the object of the club was to build success for the fans
Matt Busby always told the players that "these fans work hard all week and use their money to watch you play"
Entertain them

You are obviously correct in that i hate the Glazers.Most if not all believe they are in it for themselves and themselves alone
I think you also believe that but find it sticks in your throat to admit it
Even senior figures like David Gill hate them and what they stand for
Six wins from Ole have helped create an aura of positivity around the club that should be the standard having beaten 5 average clubs and scraped a probably undeserved win against Spurs
Manchester City's January results winning 3-0, 9-0, 7-0 and Liverpool 2-1 show me what the target should be
If you want to get your todger out over the current team and crow from the rooftops feel free
I am sure there are not many barrow boys doing the same
They all live in the world of reality where the top dogs are NOT United
If you want to use a time machine to go back to an era of reality feel free
Or better still stop reading my posts if the truth hurts you!!

Of course DDG is paid to be the worlds best goalkeeper and do what he does so well
So why don't they pay him the going rate?
That is the easiest question for you to answer which i suspect you will ignore

Also to say that there aren't many world class centre halves available is just a very stupid statement to make but typical of you so i am not surprised
Of course there are not many world class players in any position.That is why they are world class
You have to find them don't you but wait.
We don't have a director of football or a scouting system or a proven desire to look
That is what i complain about

However if you are happy with Jones,Smalling and Bailly,which it sounds like you are then look forward to United's next pre season tour to the States and take the grandkids along

[Sigmar]

I didn't see Spurs have two goals diallowed, and the one I did see was unquestionalbe, not even up for debate.

A team with a front line likie Spurs have is always going to create chances in front of goal, no matter how good or bad a defence is, I can remember the same last ditch saves being made by Schmiechel and VDS, so that point is questionable too, If we have DDG having to make that number of saves aaginst the likes of Brighton, then we have serious problems in defence.

The next point is the one a certain poster will hate most, only an idiot can't see what a difference there is in the team, and by reason if the Glazers were to blame for the poor form under Jose, then they must be plauded for the good form under Ole.

The plain fact is that with his continual slagging off of players, and the board, Jose had lost the confidence of both of them, and the players withheld their labour, that much is simple, until the moaning one was sacked, this turnaround isn't just down to Ole, it's also down to the players, the same players Jose was saying were shit and not good enough.

As has been said one of the four top spots has not yet been achieved, however the trend now is up, not static in sixth, or even risking an eighth place finish.

As has also been said Ole has picked up a lot of pointers from the greatest manager in history, he doesn't slag off his players in public, or name them as shit players, that is kept to the dressing room and the training field, none of us, not even a person who claims close connections with the club knows what happens in there or in the private team room at Carrington.

All the media said Spurs would be a test, we came through it with honours, DDG did what he is paid to do, the only problem with that is, the more he does it, the more we expect of him.

[raycreative]

a couple of points to pick you up on

Ole doesn't slag his players off, because simply put, he wants to be at this club and is very very happy
Jose simply put, didn't want to be at this club after he had been let down on "Five names given to Mr Woodward" and then went out of his way to get the bullet for the biggest financial payout he could get.Good luck to him
I wait for him to turn up at his next club.
Wouldn't it be funny if United got Poccetino and Jose went to Spurs
That's a scenario i would enjoy except i can't see Ed Woodward paying Levy and i can't see Jose going to another club who won't put their hands in their pockets

If Ole is as good as some of you are making out then Ed Woodward should just appoint him
If Ed Woodward doesn't then surely somebody like Spurs or Chelsea or Arsenal will appear to take him.Won't they??

Anyway as i keep telling you all if you are happy with the way this club was/is being run then keep paying the MUTV subscription and enjoy it
Or even try going to a game when you are not waiting on

[RED3bution]

So looking at what's happened so far, do these look like the same players from just a few weeks before under the 3rd season ticking porcupine that was José? No - it's no wonder though, because José always gave the impression and spoke as though our players are useless. Again, bar the central defense, that's just untrue.

IMO the manager himself with his self destructive tendencies eroded the confidence in the team. I don't think they downed tools personally. I think they were unhappy and completely bereft of confidence. I saw a lot of the players toil away in many games, but it looked like hard, tedious work, and nobody wanted to be there. If 3/4 years ago you were told we would have Martial, Rashford, Sanchez, Pogba, Mata, Lukaku in the same team, you would have thought it would make a lethal team, suddenly José comes along this season and sells to everyone that they overachieved to come even second. He convinced most that everyone - the board, the actual generation, the players, the fan expectations, everything apart from him were the problem. After matching just about everyone for squad investment in the last few years, could they really have been that poor?

It's easy to sit and blame the players for hanging him out to dry, but anyone who has worked for anyone, or managed any team knows that a happier, more motivated team performs a lot better and delivers better results. It's a fact of life, it doesn't mean they downed tools - there's an energy that pulls that extra out of people who buy in to, believe in, and enjoy what they're doing. If you spend time criticising everyone and declaring how great you are, you (in this case the manager) become the disruptor. Again, ironically, In this case, it WAS the manager.

I read an article about how demanding and paranoid he became of all the staff in his third season. Heard he wanted Yorke sacked as an ambassador because he questioned the style of play, and threw a major tantrum when he didn't get his wish. Could be smoke and mirrors, but from what we saw of him, it's very likely

The only difference to our team is Pogba's performance, a huge improvement to say the least.

And not Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Herrera, Matic? Even De Gea!

You should have added Ashley Young and Lindelof.
Martial has played better, his defensive liability remains. Lukaku hasn't made any difference that I recall from the bench. Lingard, Rashford, Herrera and Matic are clearly enjoying a rejuvenated Pogba in the side. During the spurs game I saw Pogba remonstrate with his team mates after chasing down a cross from the corner area. I was shocked. De Gea is consistently World Class!

Again, these players have been playing their roles diligently with Jose, except for Pogba for well-documented reasons. The difference is in the style and clearly these players perform better in a more fun and relaxed atmosphere. Too many immature professionals if you ask me. Jose's failure to adapt or the players'? Well he did ask for a more mature lot and got naff. Again, it is easy to solely blame Jose, too easy but I am only trying to be fair. I am enjoying the game more now than before, but Jose gets results and we need some results. Hope Ole is capable of doing something close even if it's bringing back hope.

[RED3bution]

I'm with Ray on this and I don't think I need to explain.

[Sigmar]

a couple of points to pick you up on

Ole doesn't slag his players off, because simply put, he wants to be at this club and is very very happy
Jose simply put, didn't want to be at this club after he had been let down on "Five names given to Mr Woodward" and then went out of his way to get the bullet for the biggest financial payout he could get.Good luck to him
I wait for him to turn up at his next club.
Wouldn't it be funny if United got Poccetino and Jose went to Spurs
That's a scenario i would enjoy except i can't see Ed Woodward paying Levy and i can't see Jose going to another club who won't put their hands in their pockets

If Ole is as good as some of you are making out then Ed Woodward should just appoint him
If Ed Woodward doesn't then surely somebody like Spurs or Chelsea or Arsenal will appear to take him.Won't they??

Anyway as i keep telling you all if you are happy with the way this club was/is being run then keep paying the MUTV subscription and enjoy it
Or even try going to a game when you are not waiting on

A couple of points to pick you up on

Of course Ole is happy, we are winning and the players are busting a gut for him, we have yet to see what would happen if we were losing, but we are not.
We only have Joses word he gave the board five names.
United have said they will appoint a manager at the end of the season, we shall have to wait and see. ( I'm actually surprised that with you'connnections' you don't already know who the manager will be).

I don't have an MUTV subscription.
I always manage to get a ticket when I want one, never had a problem, mind you I don't want an expensive meal or a pint in the Charlton suite so that I can claim to have 'connections' at the club.

[raycreative]

a couple of points to pick you up on

Ole doesn't slag his players off, because simply put, he wants to be at this club and is very very happy
Jose simply put, didn't want to be at this club after he had been let down on "Five names given to Mr Woodward" and then went out of his way to get the bullet for the biggest financial payout he could get.Good luck to him
I wait for him to turn up at his next club.
Wouldn't it be funny if United got Poccetino and Jose went to Spurs
That's a scenario i would enjoy except i can't see Ed Woodward paying Levy and i can't see Jose going to another club who won't put their hands in their pockets

If Ole is as good as some of you are making out then Ed Woodward should just appoint him
If Ed Woodward doesn't then surely somebody like Spurs or Chelsea or Arsenal will appear to take him.Won't they??

Anyway as i keep telling you all if you are happy with the way this club was/is being run then keep paying the MUTV subscription and enjoy it
Or even try going to a game when you are not waiting on

A couple of points to pick you up on

Of course Ole is happy, we are winning and the players are busting a gut for him, we have yet to see what would happen if we were losing, but we are not.
We only have Joses word he gave the board five names.
United have said they will appoint a manager at the end of the season, we shall have to wait and see. ( I'm actually surprised that with you'connnections' you don't already know who the manager will be).

I don't have an MUTV subscription.
I always manage to get a ticket when I want one, never had a problem, mind you I don't want an expensive meal or a pint in the Charlton suite so that I can claim to have 'connections' at the club.

As long as you remember to pay the Glazers the £32.00 to make yourself a full member then it is good to know that you can get a ticket anytime you want
I hope you realise that if you haven't paid the full membership then the Glazers consider you and whoever gets you the ticket have broken Glazernomic rules and as such that ticket will be confiscated and no refund given
Expect somebody from the Far east to be sat in that seat for the rest of the season
Do you think that is a pathetic way to treat genuine log time fans like you?
Well i do but what about the 30 United fans that were pulled out of Wembley on Sunday

And no i have no idea who the next manager will be
My "connections" are with old players and they have no idea

I also have never had a Bobby Charlton however i hear that the food and service is a lot better than the International Fine Dining package.
As you proudly announce you like serving maybe you should apply for a job as a server in the Bobby Charlton Suite.
The pay is minimum rates but at least you get inside the ground

[Glorio]

I'm with Ray on this and I don't think I need to explain.

If you wade through the antagonism between some of the posts, I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing too much around the performances of the manager and their respective teams. So I'm unsure which side that is. If anything, Ray is postulating that José intentionally sabotaged our season. Is that your view too? Because your stance has been that he's not to blame.

My view is José's team was underachieving massively, they were defensively minded, ponderous, rather static, demotivated, and much lower than they were supposed to be in the league (even based on the players we have) - and I've attributed that to the manager, his approach, and his terrible attitude. We've seen it over and over again with him.

Ole's come in, told the players that they're good enough to actually play, he's instituted a greater emphasis on attacking the opponents, pressing high up the pitch, fluidity, and mobility, and it's working. We're actually beating the teams we should be beating comprehensively, and we look like we can at least match the teams above us, rather than expect a hammering.

Regarding the Story of The Five:

I don't know too much about the Glazers inner dealings and I won't pretend to, but what I do know is that all the transfer windows before that last one, Mourinho got about every player he asked for. The only one that got away that I remember about was Perisic. Last summer, he reportedly gave a list of 5 defenders to thw club, and to point out, we weren't supposed to buy 5 different players, if I remember correctly, he wanted 1 or 2 defenders, and backups for if we missed the first choice. The club didn't indulge him, as he'd already bought 2 central defenders, neither of which were getting much game time last season, and he basically self destructed, blaming everyone but himself.

It is naive to think a manager can be such a bitter bully to his players and they'd still be happy and motivated. It happens in every walk of life - not just football (people who say they should get on with it, obviously haven't worked with teams, or reviewed performances vs staff engagement before). Football players are not that unique - bosses who mistreat their staff and regularly criticise them, and blame them for everything wrong, do not have motivated and high performing teams. A human's performance level dips if they're unhappy and don't feel appreciated. Now, in elite football, where small margins matter, and you're looking at the collective loss of performance levels across 11 individuals at any one time, that's huge. And it's the manager's fault - I saw us huff and puff for many a game, so it's not like they just refused to play. A dark cloud followed José throughout this season like has happened in most of his 3rd seasons, and as in the other cases, it has cost us many points

Now guess what? A manager is not always going to get his targets ..... IN ANY TEAM. It seems a pattern with him that when this inevitably happens that he doesn't get his way, he starts throwing petulant tantrums at everyone, and drags everyone under a toxic cloud of infighting and ultimately, failure.

[RED3bution]

I understood Ray's utterances to represent a hypothesis. We don't have an inside story. Amongst the more real and plausible ones is what he has consistently said is the Glazer's penchant to maximize profits. Tie it all in and it starts shredding counter evidence and building up the scenario that Jose was possibly disgruntled by the level of ambition being shown him by the board in the lack of support in the transfer market. You task a reputed manager to get you back to glory and second-guess him on transfers. Funny isn't it. He probably saw the hand-writing on the wall. Yes you can't get every player you want but aren't we supposed to be one of the richest clubs and you mean we couldn't get one out of 5? Was Neymar on the list?
So he had signed 2 prior, how does that work out if they are not working out the way he wants. Hiring Jose was not Jose's fault, his MO was already out there. What exactly is the point of getting him here to give him a different direction. He hardly trusts youngsters and we know he likes to create competition within his teams. Look at all his successful teams and see the richness. So everyone knows how Jose likes to work maybe except the board.
You undermine a manager like that and you think the players will not notice. I will leave that there. Unfortunately that was his story.

Ole is enjoying a super patch and long may it continue. I hope that truly all these players required was a hand over the shoulders and perhaps euphemisms to help their ego. I am happier the way we are playing because it is in stark contrast with the mood when Jose was here. Pogba is a player that commands a lot of influence in the dressing room it seems and Jose had no hope going up against him in that team.

[ArizonaRed]

I understood Ray's utterances to represent a hypothesis. We don't have an inside story. Amongst the more real and plausible ones is what he has consistently said is the Glazer's penchant to maximize profits. Tie it all in and it starts shredding counter evidence and building up the scenario that Jose was possibly disgruntled by the level of ambition being shown him by the board in the lack of support in the transfer market. You task a reputed manager to get you back to glory and second-guess him on transfers. Funny isn't it. He probably saw the hand-writing on the wall. Yes you can't get every player you want but aren't we supposed to be one of the richest clubs and you mean we couldn't get one out of 5? Was Neymar on the list?
So he had signed 2 prior, how does that work out if they are not working out the way he wants. Hiring Jose was not Jose's fault, his MO was already out there. What exactly is the point of getting him here to give him a different direction. He hardly trusts youngsters and we know he likes to create competition within his teams. Look at all his successful teams and see the richness. So everyone knows how Jose likes to work maybe except the board.
You undermine a manager like that and you think the players will not notice. I will leave that there. Unfortunately that was his story.

Ole is enjoying a super patch and long may it continue. I hope that truly all these players required was a hand over the shoulders and perhaps euphemisms to help their ego. I am happier the way we are playing because it is in stark contrast with the mood when Jose was here. Pogba is a player that commands a lot of influence in the dressing room it seems and Jose had no hope going up against him in that team.

I have a hard time buying this idea that Mourinho wasn’t supported by the board. United has the second highest payroll in the premier league, only to City’s is higher, so obviously the Glazers are willing to spend money. Since Mourinho arrived at United he had brought in;

Eric Bailly - £30m
Zlatan Ibrahimovic - free
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - £27m
Paul Pogba - £89m
Victor Lindelof - £31m
Romelu Lukaku - £75m
Nemanja Matic - £40m
Alexis Sanchez - swap deal
Diogo Dalot - £19m
Fred - £52m
Lee Grant - £1.5m

The transfer amounts vary a little from site to site and these are some of the lowest I could find, but still, this accounts for ~£360m. Even accounting for inflation this is more spend than at any other club where Mourinho has managed. That is one hell of a lot of support and yet it wasn’t enough for Mourinho. Some of these players would have commercial value; Zlatan, Pogba - maybe Lukaku & Sanchez - but seriously does anyone believe that Woodward had heard of some of these players let alone what their value would be.

We have all read about the piece of paper with 5 names on it, but none of us know who these players were or what position they played. Football has move on from the time when United showed up and told clubs how much we were going to pay for their star player. Because of television money a club like Leicester can tell United to push a rope when we offer £65M for Harry Mcguire because they do not need the cash. Mourinho was financially backed by the board, it wasn’t the boards fault the Mourinho could not get the players to buy into his style of football. The longer Mourinho was at United the more he reminded me of Bill Walsh the 49er head coach, after winning 3 Super Bowls the rest of the league caught on to what he was doing. Instead of making changes to his style of play he continued playing the same way and blamed the losses on the players that could not execute his plan. If players are told over and over that they are shit and need to be replaced, soon they will start to believe it and perform accordingly.

Ole has a long way to go before his resume comes close to Mourinho’s, but what he has proved in only 6 games is that he has been able to get much better performance from the same players than Mourinho could.

[RED3bution]

I understood Ray's utterances to represent a hypothesis. We don't have an inside story. Amongst the more real and plausible ones is what he has consistently said is the Glazer's penchant to maximize profits. Tie it all in and it starts shredding counter evidence and building up the scenario that Jose was possibly disgruntled by the level of ambition being shown him by the board in the lack of support in the transfer market. You task a reputed manager to get you back to glory and second-guess him on transfers. Funny isn't it. He probably saw the hand-writing on the wall. Yes you can't get every player you want but aren't we supposed to be one of the richest clubs and you mean we couldn't get one out of 5? Was Neymar on the list?
So he had signed 2 prior, how does that work out if they are not working out the way he wants. Hiring Jose was not Jose's fault, his MO was already out there. What exactly is the point of getting him here to give him a different direction. He hardly trusts youngsters and we know he likes to create competition within his teams. Look at all his successful teams and see the richness. So everyone knows how Jose likes to work maybe except the board.
You undermine a manager like that and you think the players will not notice. I will leave that there. Unfortunately that was his story.

Ole is enjoying a super patch and long may it continue. I hope that truly all these players required was a hand over the shoulders and perhaps euphemisms to help their ego. I am happier the way we are playing because it is in stark contrast with the mood when Jose was here. Pogba is a player that commands a lot of influence in the dressing room it seems and Jose had no hope going up against him in that team.

I have a hard time buying this idea that Mourinho wasn’t supported by the board. United has the second highest payroll in the premier league, only to City’s is higher, so obviously the Glazers are willing to spend money. Since Mourinho arrived at United he had brought in;

Eric Bailly - £30m
Zlatan Ibrahimovic - free
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - £27m
Paul Pogba - £89m
Victor Lindelof - £31m
Romelu Lukaku - £75m
Nemanja Matic - £40m
Alexis Sanchez - swap deal
Diogo Dalot - £19m
Fred - £52m
Lee Grant - £1.5m

The transfer amounts vary a little from site to site and these are some of the lowest I could find, but still, this accounts for ~£360m. Even accounting for inflation this is more spend than at any other club where Mourinho has managed. That is one hell of a lot of support and yet it wasn’t enough for Mourinho. Some of these players would have commercial value; Zlatan, Pogba - maybe Lukaku & Sanchez - but seriously does anyone believe that Woodward had heard of some of these players let alone what their value would be.

We have all read about the piece of paper with 5 names on it, but none of us know who these players were or what position they played. Football has move on from the time when United showed up and told clubs how much we were going to pay for their star player. Because of television money a club like Leicester can tell United to push a rope when we offer £65M for Harry Mcguire because they do not need the cash. Mourinho was financially backed by the board, it wasn’t the boards fault the Mourinho could not get the players to buy into his style of football. The longer Mourinho was at United the more he reminded me of Bill Walsh the 49er head coach, after winning 3 Super Bowls the rest of the league caught on to what he was doing. Instead of making changes to his style of play he continued playing the same way and blamed the losses on the players that could not execute his plan. If players are told over and over that they are shit and need to be replaced, soon they will start to believe it and perform accordingly.

Ole has a long way to go before his resume comes close to Mourinho’s, but what he has proved in only 6 games is that he has been able to get much better performance from the same players than Mourinho could.

http://www.espn.com/soccer/manchester-u ... appearance

Would have been nice to hear him say something or two. Might have added to our discussion.

I recognize Mourinho has been back by the board. I also understand that he has given back trophies though not the main ones, but he has sown progress from LVG and he had asked for more to chase the upgraded competition. Perfectly logical. I hope you're not implying that since he's been backed in the past he had no right to complain if he's not backed in the future. Not when the competition Liverpool and Manchester City were making in-roads in the market. I don't know about you but unless we have a super scouting system, which we don't or a very prodcutive youth system, which we don't, then we should be competing in that market as well.

Do you think that Mourinho was trying to put his players down by criticizing them in public? I think he was challenging them to step up. William Gallas said as much. He coaches in this way. Unfortunately I think Pogba was the one who he needed to cuddle because he seems to have a massive personality in the dressing room.

Mourinho's teams are cohesive defensively, then from there it's a game of razor-thin margins, this is where Mourinho thrives, where the margins rely on detail. He was never able to get that from this team and I think it had to do with a lack of defensive reinforcements which still shows even in this period with Ole. I will say that the game against Spurs turned in our favor after Sissoko limped off. He had made sure the brilliance of Pogba was not felt much.
Lastly Mourinho and that group had become completely incompatible, given everything that seemed to work against Mourinho some of it self inflicted. But this is the man, he likes adversity, because I suppose he feels humans/teams tend to form more readily in this state so he invites it. I will not rule him out of finding another top job and meeting us in a tournament and then maybe we can appreciate his work from afar. Too bad he can't say a thing about his time here.

[Mr_Aubergine]

I think the departure of Rui Faria has had a big effect on Mourinho’s performance.