How the f++k have we let his contract run down to the wire yet again
I am not quite sure what game you were watchingArizonaRed wrote: ↑Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:21 pmIf a Mourinho team had turned in this performance, we would be calling it a MASTER CLASS coaching job and Mourinho would be gathering all the praise for it. On the other hand Ole; gives all the credit to his players; but make no mistake about it, this was a great strategic game plan put together by Ole and his staff. Maybe Ole’s greatest achievement from this game was selling his plan to the players and having them buy into it. They were confidant and totally fearless and played like they believed that they were going to win.
Having a football philosophy or style is great, developing strategies and tactics that dismantle the opposition is wonderful, giving inspirational speeches and making the players feel good about themselves is all part of being a manager. What I believe sets the great managers apart from the very good ones is their ability to; evaluate the talent at their disposal and mold those players into a cohesive team that is better than the sum of its parts. They are able to get the absolute maximum out of every team member and to get them to work as a team. This is what Ole and his staff did this Sunday against Spurs.
Of course, having GOAL - David de Gea build a barricade across his goal mouth doesn’t hurt either.
While the club is performing its due diligence in search for a “long term” manager/coach, I hope they do not let a shinny reputation blind them to what they already have at home.
That must have been awesome going to your first game, you picked a good one and a good period for the club.Sandies wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:56 pmMy first ever game and what an experience
What a result
What a difference in the side
And what an joy it was to experience that from De Gea. I’m in awe of what he just did and so thankful I got to witness that
Being at the game gave me a different view on things. I realized what a great job Herrera and Lingard do, and what a cohesive unit we have become.
Don’t discredit Ole either, he knew exactly what the game needed and how to break spurs. A proper away performance
The only difference to our team is Pogba's performance, a huge improvement to say the least.Glorio wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:20 pmSo looking at what's happened so far, do these look like the same players from just a few weeks before under the 3rd season ticking porcupine that was José? No - it's no wonder though, because José always gave the impression and spoke as though our players are useless. Again, bar the central defense, that's just untrue.
IMO the manager himself with his self destructive tendencies eroded the confidence in the team. I don't think they downed tools personally. I think they were unhappy and completely bereft of confidence. I saw a lot of the players toil away in many games, but it looked like hard, tedious work, and nobody wanted to be there. If 3/4 years ago you were told we would have Martial, Rashford, Sanchez, Pogba, Mata, Lukaku in the same team, you would have thought it would make a lethal team, suddenly José comes along this season and sells to everyone that they overachieved to come even second. He convinced most that everyone - the board, the actual generation, the players, the fan expectations, everything apart from him were the problem. After matching just about everyone for squad investment in the last few years, could they really have been that poor?
It's easy to sit and blame the players for hanging him out to dry, but anyone who has worked for anyone, or managed any team knows that a happier, more motivated team performs a lot better and delivers better results. It's a fact of life, it doesn't mean they downed tools - there's an energy that pulls that extra out of people who buy in to, believe in, and enjoy what they're doing. If you spend time criticising everyone and declaring how great you are, you (in this case the manager) become the disruptor. Again, ironically, In this case, it WAS the manager.
I read an article about how demanding and paranoid he became of all the staff in his third season. Heard he wanted Yorke sacked as an ambassador because he questioned the style of play, and threw a major tantrum when he didn't get his wish. Could be smoke and mirrors, but from what we saw of him, it's very likely
Totally agree with all above but why not go deeper and ask why Jose went toxic on this team or indeed why does he go toxic on any teamGlorio wrote: ↑Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:45 pmRegarding getting carried away:
TBH - I'm not sure anyone is saying Ole is some Merlin-esque master. What I am saying though is that the terrible football we've been seeing was largely because of the toxic personality of 3rd season José. If you come second in the league one year, and before a ball is kicked, you start insinuating that the players you have were nowhere good enough to achieve that (basically your genius is what dragged the riff raffs along), and you start berating them publicly left, right, and centre; it's not rocket science, you'd end up with something broken. People are not machines. In addition to being a master tactician, you've got to man manage, and to do that, you have to actually respect your players.
As Redknapp said, forget Pogba for a second - everyone is playing better, and freer, and we're actually looking to attack first.
Lingard, Martial, and Rashford have been in the ranks for years - it's not rocket science to play them together and allow them express themselves. We never pressed high as a team before - now we're hunting in packs high up when we lose the ball, rather than sitting deep all the time (necessary some times).
Credit where it is due though, Ole is doing remarkably well so far, and sometimes you just need to work with someone with shared values - we never managed that with all previous managers.
And not Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Herrera, Matic? Even De Gea!RED3bution wrote: ↑Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:04 pmThe only difference to our team is Pogba's performance, a huge improvement to say the least.Glorio wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:20 pmSo looking at what's happened so far, do these look like the same players from just a few weeks before under the 3rd season ticking porcupine that was José? No - it's no wonder though, because José always gave the impression and spoke as though our players are useless. Again, bar the central defense, that's just untrue.
IMO the manager himself with his self destructive tendencies eroded the confidence in the team. I don't think they downed tools personally. I think they were unhappy and completely bereft of confidence. I saw a lot of the players toil away in many games, but it looked like hard, tedious work, and nobody wanted to be there. If 3/4 years ago you were told we would have Martial, Rashford, Sanchez, Pogba, Mata, Lukaku in the same team, you would have thought it would make a lethal team, suddenly José comes along this season and sells to everyone that they overachieved to come even second. He convinced most that everyone - the board, the actual generation, the players, the fan expectations, everything apart from him were the problem. After matching just about everyone for squad investment in the last few years, could they really have been that poor?
It's easy to sit and blame the players for hanging him out to dry, but anyone who has worked for anyone, or managed any team knows that a happier, more motivated team performs a lot better and delivers better results. It's a fact of life, it doesn't mean they downed tools - there's an energy that pulls that extra out of people who buy in to, believe in, and enjoy what they're doing. If you spend time criticising everyone and declaring how great you are, you (in this case the manager) become the disruptor. Again, ironically, In this case, it WAS the manager.
I read an article about how demanding and paranoid he became of all the staff in his third season. Heard he wanted Yorke sacked as an ambassador because he questioned the style of play, and threw a major tantrum when he didn't get his wish. Could be smoke and mirrors, but from what we saw of him, it's very likely
raycreative wrote: ↑Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:23 pmI am not quite sure what game you were watchingArizonaRed wrote: ↑Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:21 pmIf a Mourinho team had turned in this performance, we would be calling it a MASTER CLASS coaching job and Mourinho would be gathering all the praise for it. On the other hand Ole; gives all the credit to his players; but make no mistake about it, this was a great strategic game plan put together by Ole and his staff. Maybe Ole’s greatest achievement from this game was selling his plan to the players and having them buy into it. They were confidant and totally fearless and played like they believed that they were going to win.
Having a football philosophy or style is great, developing strategies and tactics that dismantle the opposition is wonderful, giving inspirational speeches and making the players feel good about themselves is all part of being a manager. What I believe sets the great managers apart from the very good ones is their ability to; evaluate the talent at their disposal and mold those players into a cohesive team that is better than the sum of its parts. They are able to get the absolute maximum out of every team member and to get them to work as a team. This is what Ole and his staff did this Sunday against Spurs.
Of course, having GOAL - David de Gea build a barricade across his goal mouth doesn’t hurt either.
While the club is performing its due diligence in search for a “long term” manager/coach, I hope they do not let a shinny reputation blind them to what they already have at home.
If a Mourhino team had turned in this performance you and a lot of others would have berated him for "parking the bus"
Was this Ole's team tactics or were they Alex Fergusons team tactics at the start?
We will never know will we.
what i did see at half time was a good tactical move from Poccetino to put the game in a position that we were forced back to defend
Two disallowed goals and 4 or 5 brilliant saves from DDg showed me how weak we still are in the centre of defence and still not a smell of a Virgil van Dijk being found or even looked for
After all centre halves don't sell shirts do they
Bu all means enjoy what is going on.
I am
But don't get carried away with the thought that Ole is a better manager than Matt Busby,Alex Ferguson or even Jose Mourhino
Ole has Manchester United genes and he loves this club.
i and many others love him for that, but stop dissing Jose and don't forget what the aim of this club should be
It it not top 4(which by the way we still aren't quite yet
It is to challenge for the league and Champions league and we are a long long way from that
You should have added Ashley Young and Lindelof.Glorio wrote: ↑Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:54 pmAnd not Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Herrera, Matic? Even De Gea!RED3bution wrote: ↑Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:04 pmThe only difference to our team is Pogba's performance, a huge improvement to say the least.Glorio wrote: ↑Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:20 pmSo looking at what's happened so far, do these look like the same players from just a few weeks before under the 3rd season ticking porcupine that was José? No - it's no wonder though, because José always gave the impression and spoke as though our players are useless. Again, bar the central defense, that's just untrue.
IMO the manager himself with his self destructive tendencies eroded the confidence in the team. I don't think they downed tools personally. I think they were unhappy and completely bereft of confidence. I saw a lot of the players toil away in many games, but it looked like hard, tedious work, and nobody wanted to be there. If 3/4 years ago you were told we would have Martial, Rashford, Sanchez, Pogba, Mata, Lukaku in the same team, you would have thought it would make a lethal team, suddenly José comes along this season and sells to everyone that they overachieved to come even second. He convinced most that everyone - the board, the actual generation, the players, the fan expectations, everything apart from him were the problem. After matching just about everyone for squad investment in the last few years, could they really have been that poor?
It's easy to sit and blame the players for hanging him out to dry, but anyone who has worked for anyone, or managed any team knows that a happier, more motivated team performs a lot better and delivers better results. It's a fact of life, it doesn't mean they downed tools - there's an energy that pulls that extra out of people who buy in to, believe in, and enjoy what they're doing. If you spend time criticising everyone and declaring how great you are, you (in this case the manager) become the disruptor. Again, ironically, In this case, it WAS the manager.
I read an article about how demanding and paranoid he became of all the staff in his third season. Heard he wanted Yorke sacked as an ambassador because he questioned the style of play, and threw a major tantrum when he didn't get his wish. Could be smoke and mirrors, but from what we saw of him, it's very likely
A couple of points to pick you up onraycreative wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:18 pma couple of points to pick you up on
Ole doesn't slag his players off, because simply put, he wants to be at this club and is very very happy
Jose simply put, didn't want to be at this club after he had been let down on "Five names given to Mr Woodward" and then went out of his way to get the bullet for the biggest financial payout he could get.Good luck to him
I wait for him to turn up at his next club.
Wouldn't it be funny if United got Poccetino and Jose went to Spurs
That's a scenario i would enjoy except i can't see Ed Woodward paying Levy and i can't see Jose going to another club who won't put their hands in their pockets
If Ole is as good as some of you are making out then Ed Woodward should just appoint him
If Ed Woodward doesn't then surely somebody like Spurs or Chelsea or Arsenal will appear to take him.Won't they??
Anyway as i keep telling you all if you are happy with the way this club was/is being run then keep paying the MUTV subscription and enjoy it
Or even try going to a game when you are not waiting on
As long as you remember to pay the Glazers the £32.00 to make yourself a full member then it is good to know that you can get a ticket anytime you wantSigmar wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:11 pmA couple of points to pick you up onraycreative wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:18 pma couple of points to pick you up on
Ole doesn't slag his players off, because simply put, he wants to be at this club and is very very happy
Jose simply put, didn't want to be at this club after he had been let down on "Five names given to Mr Woodward" and then went out of his way to get the bullet for the biggest financial payout he could get.Good luck to him
I wait for him to turn up at his next club.
Wouldn't it be funny if United got Poccetino and Jose went to Spurs
That's a scenario i would enjoy except i can't see Ed Woodward paying Levy and i can't see Jose going to another club who won't put their hands in their pockets
If Ole is as good as some of you are making out then Ed Woodward should just appoint him
If Ed Woodward doesn't then surely somebody like Spurs or Chelsea or Arsenal will appear to take him.Won't they??
Anyway as i keep telling you all if you are happy with the way this club was/is being run then keep paying the MUTV subscription and enjoy it
Or even try going to a game when you are not waiting on
Of course Ole is happy, we are winning and the players are busting a gut for him, we have yet to see what would happen if we were losing, but we are not.
We only have Joses word he gave the board five names.
United have said they will appoint a manager at the end of the season, we shall have to wait and see. ( I'm actually surprised that with you'connnections' you don't already know who the manager will be).
I don't have an MUTV subscription.
I always manage to get a ticket when I want one, never had a problem, mind you I don't want an expensive meal or a pint in the Charlton suite so that I can claim to have 'connections' at the club.
If you wade through the antagonism between some of the posts, I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing too much around the performances of the manager and their respective teams. So I'm unsure which side that is. If anything, Ray is postulating that José intentionally sabotaged our season. Is that your view too? Because your stance has been that he's not to blame.RED3bution wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:00 pmI'm with Ray on this and I don't think I need to explain.
I have a hard time buying this idea that Mourinho wasn’t supported by the board. United has the second highest payroll in the premier league, only to City’s is higher, so obviously the Glazers are willing to spend money. Since Mourinho arrived at United he had brought in;RED3bution wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:56 pmI understood Ray's utterances to represent a hypothesis. We don't have an inside story. Amongst the more real and plausible ones is what he has consistently said is the Glazer's penchant to maximize profits. Tie it all in and it starts shredding counter evidence and building up the scenario that Jose was possibly disgruntled by the level of ambition being shown him by the board in the lack of support in the transfer market. You task a reputed manager to get you back to glory and second-guess him on transfers. Funny isn't it. He probably saw the hand-writing on the wall. Yes you can't get every player you want but aren't we supposed to be one of the richest clubs and you mean we couldn't get one out of 5? Was Neymar on the list?
So he had signed 2 prior, how does that work out if they are not working out the way he wants. Hiring Jose was not Jose's fault, his MO was already out there. What exactly is the point of getting him here to give him a different direction. He hardly trusts youngsters and we know he likes to create competition within his teams. Look at all his successful teams and see the richness. So everyone knows how Jose likes to work maybe except the board.
You undermine a manager like that and you think the players will not notice. I will leave that there. Unfortunately that was his story.
Ole is enjoying a super patch and long may it continue. I hope that truly all these players required was a hand over the shoulders and perhaps euphemisms to help their ego. I am happier the way we are playing because it is in stark contrast with the mood when Jose was here. Pogba is a player that commands a lot of influence in the dressing room it seems and Jose had no hope going up against him in that team.
http://www.espn.com/soccer/manchester-u ... appearanceArizonaRed wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:39 pmI have a hard time buying this idea that Mourinho wasn’t supported by the board. United has the second highest payroll in the premier league, only to City’s is higher, so obviously the Glazers are willing to spend money. Since Mourinho arrived at United he had brought in;RED3bution wrote: ↑Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:56 pmI understood Ray's utterances to represent a hypothesis. We don't have an inside story. Amongst the more real and plausible ones is what he has consistently said is the Glazer's penchant to maximize profits. Tie it all in and it starts shredding counter evidence and building up the scenario that Jose was possibly disgruntled by the level of ambition being shown him by the board in the lack of support in the transfer market. You task a reputed manager to get you back to glory and second-guess him on transfers. Funny isn't it. He probably saw the hand-writing on the wall. Yes you can't get every player you want but aren't we supposed to be one of the richest clubs and you mean we couldn't get one out of 5? Was Neymar on the list?
So he had signed 2 prior, how does that work out if they are not working out the way he wants. Hiring Jose was not Jose's fault, his MO was already out there. What exactly is the point of getting him here to give him a different direction. He hardly trusts youngsters and we know he likes to create competition within his teams. Look at all his successful teams and see the richness. So everyone knows how Jose likes to work maybe except the board.
You undermine a manager like that and you think the players will not notice. I will leave that there. Unfortunately that was his story.
Ole is enjoying a super patch and long may it continue. I hope that truly all these players required was a hand over the shoulders and perhaps euphemisms to help their ego. I am happier the way we are playing because it is in stark contrast with the mood when Jose was here. Pogba is a player that commands a lot of influence in the dressing room it seems and Jose had no hope going up against him in that team.
Eric Bailly - £30m
Zlatan Ibrahimovic - free
Henrikh Mkhitaryan - £27m
Paul Pogba - £89m
Victor Lindelof - £31m
Romelu Lukaku - £75m
Nemanja Matic - £40m
Alexis Sanchez - swap deal
Diogo Dalot - £19m
Fred - £52m
Lee Grant - £1.5m
The transfer amounts vary a little from site to site and these are some of the lowest I could find, but still, this accounts for ~£360m. Even accounting for inflation this is more spend than at any other club where Mourinho has managed. That is one hell of a lot of support and yet it wasn’t enough for Mourinho. Some of these players would have commercial value; Zlatan, Pogba - maybe Lukaku & Sanchez - but seriously does anyone believe that Woodward had heard of some of these players let alone what their value would be.
We have all read about the piece of paper with 5 names on it, but none of us know who these players were or what position they played. Football has move on from the time when United showed up and told clubs how much we were going to pay for their star player. Because of television money a club like Leicester can tell United to push a rope when we offer £65M for Harry Mcguire because they do not need the cash. Mourinho was financially backed by the board, it wasn’t the boards fault the Mourinho could not get the players to buy into his style of football. The longer Mourinho was at United the more he reminded me of Bill Walsh the 49er head coach, after winning 3 Super Bowls the rest of the league caught on to what he was doing. Instead of making changes to his style of play he continued playing the same way and blamed the losses on the players that could not execute his plan. If players are told over and over that they are shit and need to be replaced, soon they will start to believe it and perform accordingly.
Ole has a long way to go before his resume comes close to Mourinho’s, but what he has proved in only 6 games is that he has been able to get much better performance from the same players than Mourinho could.
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