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Sheffield United in the Premier League.
Sunday 24th November 2019, KO 16:30 UTC.
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Devil Pikney
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Why Not Bale?

Wed May 22, 2019 7:38 pm

I've been noticing that the subject of a possible Bale transfer to United keeps popping up in various threads and the views regarding such a move always seem to be negative, even when you disregard the deliberately rubbish posts that would be negative even if the discussion involved signing Kane.

The main negatives are obviously the price that Madrid would try to gouge out of a potential buyer and the wages that Bale himself would expect. However, if you step back and take a look at the player himself without being influenced by what’s been written and said by a club looking for a scapegoat and media outlets who are more interested in sales than in being accurate, then bringing Bale to United doesn't look that farfetched in my opinion.

One of the supposed negatives is that Bale turns 30 this year and while I’ll agree that it’s not the preferred age to sign a player, it doesn’t always mean that the player will fail. RVP was 29 when we signed him, Sheringham was 31 and I would venture to say that we got our moneys worth in both cases.

Bale’s record at Madrid is impressive as hell for the 6 seasons he’s played for them (played 231 games/scored 102 goals/with 64 assists) but supposedly he’s not worth signing anymore because he’s too injury prone and as many have pointed out, just had his worst season.

Bullshit I think or at best, an “eye of the beholder” opinion.

In the 2017-2018 season Bale played in 39 games/scored 21 goals/ with 7 assists which was obviously superior to his record this season – 42 games/14 goals/with 6 assists.

What those stats don’t tell you is that he was Madrid’s second highest scorer, behind only Benzema, who played more than 1000 minutes more than Bale did. The stats also don’t tell you that at times (as happened in the last 3 matches of the season) he sat on the bench, perfectly fit but unused, or that in 13 of the 42 matches he came on as a substitute.

Worse season maybe, but for a supposed “too old and injury prone player” to play in 42 games, score 14 goals and chip in with 6 assists, all in one season, makes you wonder if he’s really past it or easily injured.

Take a look at our top scorers this past season.
Pogba – played 47 games or 4012 minutes/scored 16 goals//with 11 assists.
Lukaku – played 45 games or 3001 minutes/scored 15 goals/with 4 assists.
Rashford – played 47 games or 3291 minutes/scored 13 goals/with 9 assists.

So, our best young and fit attacking players didn’t really manage a lot more than Bale did last season.
The main difference actually is that the supposedly over the hill and injury prone player managed to rack up his stats last season in only 2620 minutes.

Food for thought maybe?





P.S. Plus he’d sell lots of shirts :dance: :dance:


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Re: Why Not Bale?

Wed May 22, 2019 9:40 pm

So what numbers are we talking about?
It all depends. If he's injury-prone then I don't see the point because he will become more injury-prone here seeing as, if his numbers remain at least consistent, he will automatically become our star man and perhaps see more minutes.

I can understand the whole thumbs down on this rumored signing. If I'm being optimistic, manutd need to land a player that signals to the prem world they are back to being ambitious. We need youngish, hungry and grounded players to get out of the quicksand we are in. If anything, Bale should come at the tail end of our transfer business as a star-bench player. See like Shaquiri for Liverpool. My perspective.


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Re: Why Not Bale?

Wed May 22, 2019 10:49 pm

The numbers that we're talking about are the ones above that show he's playing in as many games as players that are supposedly rarely injured, scoring pretty much as many goals as they do, getting into the same range of assists and doing all that with less time on the pitch.

It also lends to the argument that if he can do that when he's supposed to be injured, then what can he do when he's fit? And does one season of injury problems mean that he's now injury prone?

As for the need for young and hungry players, you're preaching to the converted here but every team needs a few hungry, older/experienced and still capable players in the first team to lead and guide the younger players, particularly in difficult games. We don't exactly have many of those right now do we?

Daniel James for instance looks good but if he becomes the type of player we need, that'll more than likely be one or two years into the future. Bale in the meantime is a player proven in the EPL whose stats don't exactly match those of a washed up player.

I'm not necessarily saying we should sign Bale but I am saying I don't think that it should be considered to be completely out of the question and just another Sanchez move.


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Re: Why Not Bale?

Wed May 22, 2019 11:43 pm

As has been mentioned, he's likely to get more injury prone. RVP was a striker who never really depended on pace while Bale is a wide player who relies heavily on that. This deal would resemble the Sanchez one a lot more than the RVP one:
Star wide speedy player, showing signs of decline and coming off a poor season at their current club (which both produced a lot more chances than we do), astronomical wages, at odds with their current team mates, and a proneness to injuries.
Not to add that Bale has no interest in Man Utd and has turned us down (if reports are to be believed) loads of times before

No thanks


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Re: Why Not Bale?

Thu May 23, 2019 3:47 am

Glorio wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:43 pm
As has been mentioned, he's likely to get more injury prone. Why, because he's had one season that's been interrupted by injury? Lots of players have had similar experiences and successfully done well in subsequent seasons.....Giggsy for instanceRVP was a striker who never really depended on pace while Bale is a wide player who relies heavily on that.True but when he did play during this past season he didn't look as if he'd lost his pace. Plus good players tend to adapt their play to their loss of pace....Ronaldo and again Giggs are good examples This deal would resemble the Sanchez one a lot more than the RVP one: Don't agree there man...RVP was more injured than he was fit for several seasons prior to his final season at Arsenal. Then in his last year at Arsenal he had what was probably his best season ever, followed by a great season at United. Sanchez on the other hand had a fantastic penultimate season at Arsenal and then in his final half season, despite the strife between himself and the club, still scored 8 goals before leaving for United.
Star wide speedy player, showing signs of decline and coming off a poor season at their current club One poor season in 6 and some would debate whether 14 goals and 6 assists from a winger constitutes a poor season(which both produced a lot more chances than we do), astronomical wages, Agree with you there, at odds with their current team mates,Supposedly and usually blamed on the fact that he wouldn't learn to speak Spanish. Well that wouldn't cause any problems in England and not seeing eye to eye with teammates doesn't necessarily have to affect how they mesh on the pitch.....remember the relationship between Sheringham and Cole? and a proneness to injuries.As I said, one season does not equate to a player being prone to injury.
Not to add that Bale has no interest in Man Utd and has turned us down (if reports are to be believed) loads of times beforeThat might well be true but as you said..."if reports are to be believed".

No thanks Also as I said, I'm not necessarily advocating that we buy Bale, just pointing out that he may not be as washed up and useless as everyone seems to think.


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Re: Why Not Bale?

Thu May 23, 2019 7:43 am

As has been mentioned, he's likely to get more injury prone. Why, because he's had one season that's been interrupted by injury? Lots of players have had similar experiences and successfully done well in subsequent seasons.....Giggsy for instance

Bale has had issues with injuries his whole career. That in itself seem to be getting worse, so there's a trend there that shouldn't be ignored.

RVP was a striker who never really depended on pace while Bale is a wide player who relies heavily on that.True but when he did play during this past season he didn't look as if he'd lost his pace. Plus good players tend to adapt their play to their loss of pace....Ronaldo and again Giggs are good examples
Bale is not Ronaldo though - I think last season firmly confirmed that. And I wouldn't splash out on the aging Giggs, even if he gave us some decent football in certain periods - he was always going to be a stop gap midfielder. Is that worth going for a new galactico player?

Bale played most times like he feared if he hit top gear, there was a risk of injury, and his game suffered for it, and he still got niggling injuries. Same effect for me - and now, he's one year older. I mean we've been on this path before - and it has bitten us


This deal would resemble the Sanchez one a lot more than the RVP one: Don't agree there man...RVP was more injured than he was fit for several seasons prior to his final season at Arsenal. Then in his last year at Arsenal he had what was probably his best season ever, followed by a great season at United. Sanchez on the other hand had a fantastic penultimate season at Arsenal and then in his final half season, despite the strife between himself and the club, still scored 8 goals before leaving for United.
Sanchez had a rubbish half season, and the cracks had started to show towards the end of the season before - 8 goals from your main man (which everything went through) is nothing to scream about. Plus he didn't work for the team any more - it's not just the goals (see Lukaku), his general play was a lot worse and people put it down to sulking. Seems it was just a decline. Very Bale-esque. Despite Bale's champions league heroics, he had started to decline the season before. The trend simply continued and was exposed by the departure of Ronaldo.

One poor season in 6 and some would debate whether 14 goals and 6 assists from a winger constitutes a poor season
Bale is a wide forward - definitely not a winger. And you're buttressing my point though - it's a worrying declining trend which didn't start last season. same situation as Sanchez.

Also, we've been down this road before of recent with massive stars of the game beginning to show signs of decline or injury, and their teams offload them onto us. Other examples would be Schweinsteiger, Falcao, and Matic.


... at odds with their current team mates,Supposedly and usually blamed on the fact that he wouldn't learn to speak Spanish. Well that wouldn't cause any problems in England and not seeing eye to eye with teammates doesn't necessarily have to affect how they mesh on the pitch.....remember the relationship between Sheringham and Cole?
That's just one example, and more often than not, it does have an effect (besides Cole played more and better with Yorke after that). The best teams are just that - a team in harmony. He hasn't exactly meshed with the Madrid folks on the field, has he? Also, it's more than not speaking Spanish - there's also shunning team events and choosing to go off golfing. Each of these on their own are not terrible but the accumulation causes disharmony in the dressing room. Not what you want when trying to build a team. If we buy any established stars nearing their end, it should be in some form of leadership capacity, rather than the complete opposite

.... and a proneness to injuries.As I said, one season does not equate to a player being prone to injury.
Only it's not just one season, is it?


Also as I said, I'm not necessarily advocating that we buy Bale, just pointing out that he may not be as washed up and useless as everyone seems to think.
I agree - but current Bale isn't what I believe we need at this club. In the very best scenario, he could come and give maybe 2 fantastic years, but at what cost? The laws of probability work with trends, and the trends here are not greatly in support of this scenario anyway


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Re: Why Not Bale?

Thu May 23, 2019 7:59 am

The problem here is that you guys are giving sensible opinions on the footballing issues

The two comments i picked up on are
1 The tongue in cheek comment about selling a lot of shirts
2 "Man United need to sign players that show we are ambitious"

I keep telling people that you have to think like a Glazer
Going to point two first.
This club has no ambitions to win things.I also refute the thought that profit and success are connected
They are not going to sign players to build a team imo
That quality of player needs to be scouted well and his position in the team jigsaw identified.That quality of player costs imo about £40/50 million.
We need about 8 such players as we are weak in so many positions
We also have no system in place to identify these players,negotiate to sign them(ie convince them we are the right club to join)
We will piss about this summer again in the transfer market.We will be after every top player just after they have signed for somebody else

Going to point one about selling shirts
That would be the biggest incentive for this club to sign him imo
He would sell shirts and sell Bobby Charlton packages to the Far East ipad branches
I am hearing that the talk is about United taking him on loan if Madrid are indeed going to get rid of him
There are very few clubs that will take a chance on his fitness and his wages at his age
Certainly no club that is building anything football wise would take a chance on him with the required money numbers
I can only think of two clubs who can afford him other than United
They are PSG and City.
City would have no interest in him and the obvious question marks,as discussed by others on fitness and age v salary would probably knock off PSG
You have a player at Madrid therefore that is giving them the same problems as we have with Sanchez

So loan would make sense to Ed Woodward and the Glazers if they could get Madrid to pay some of his wages
By taking him on a one year loan with a one year option they don't have to get rid of him at the end.They just release him or try for a third year loan if the Glazernomics are still working after two years

If Pogba does indeed force a transfer through for £150m the club also save £400k a week on salary
If the Glazers can pocket the £150m and pay Bale the same £400k a week then that would work for the Glazers
The other question is what does Bale want
Every top player can see the lack of ambition of this club
Would Bale really want to be a clown at this circus?
Would he also want to peddle his skills in the having a laugh Thursday night tournament?
Would he want to play for a club that considers a pre season tournament more important than a champions league challenge?

Things to ponder on but there is a long way to go for a Bale decision



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Re: Why Not Bale?

Sat May 25, 2019 5:07 pm

Glorio wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:43 pm
As has been mentioned, he's likely to get more injury prone. RVP was a striker who never really depended on pace while Bale is a wide player who relies heavily on that. This deal would resemble the Sanchez one a lot more than the RVP one:
Star wide speedy player, showing signs of decline and coming off a poor season at their current club (which both produced a lot more chances than we do), astronomical wages, at odds with their current team mates, and a proneness to injuries.
Not to add that Bale has no interest in Man Utd and has turned us down (if reports are to be believed) loads of times before

No thanks
Injury prone, going to turn 30 soon, overpriced. He'd only be around for 1-2 season max anyway. We need someone to be with us for 10 years, so I'd spend that money on a younger player - it's a better investment that could pay off in the longer term.



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Re: Why Not Bale?

Sat May 25, 2019 7:29 pm

montecristo5000 wrote:
Sat May 25, 2019 5:07 pm
Glorio wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 11:43 pm
As has been mentioned, he's likely to get more injury prone. RVP was a striker who never really depended on pace while Bale is a wide player who relies heavily on that. This deal would resemble the Sanchez one a lot more than the RVP one:
Star wide speedy player, showing signs of decline and coming off a poor season at their current club (which both produced a lot more chances than we do), astronomical wages, at odds with their current team mates, and a proneness to injuries.
Not to add that Bale has no interest in Man Utd and has turned us down (if reports are to be believed) loads of times before

No thanks
Injury prone, going to turn 30 soon, overpriced. He'd only be around for 1-2 season max anyway. We need someone to be with us for 10 years, so I'd spend that money on a younger player - it's a better investment that could pay off in the longer term.
Bit like Sanchez. Which is probably why I can see it happening.



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Re: Why Not Bale?

Sun May 26, 2019 2:42 am

Bale played 40+ games the last 2 years so the injury prone tag doesn't really check out.

He's won his side 2 champions league finals and a copa del rey on his own boot, so neither does the Sanchez tags

It wouldn't cost much to get him here, why we wouldn't take a punt on a one year loan deal with the option to buy is beyond me.


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Re: Why Not Bale?

Sun May 26, 2019 8:09 am

Sandies wrote:
Sun May 26, 2019 2:42 am
Bale played 40+ games the last 2 years so the injury prone tag doesn't really check out.

He's won his side 2 champions league finals and a copa del rey on his own boot, so neither does the Sanchez tags

It wouldn't cost much to get him here, why we wouldn't take a punt on a one year loan deal with the option to buy is beyond me.
Probably because Madrid would like to just sell him and re-invest the cash in another player
The one year loan deal with an option to buy would be loaded in United's favour and if i was Madrid that would be my last option
Equally if United are keeping Pogba as the main shirt seller they don't need to invest in Bale
So much is up in the air



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Re: Why Not Bale?

Sun May 26, 2019 9:54 am

As usual the papers are full of guesswork but there are a couple of stories that ring true

One is talking about swapping Pogba for a couple of players at either Juventus or Madrid
The Madrid one has a chance as it involves Bake and Glazernomics
United would get Pogba away and save his wages whereby at the same time they would get a shirt seller in Bale plus another player and some cash as well
That's the Glazers idea of investing



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Re: Why Not Bale?

Mon May 27, 2019 12:33 pm

He's only played 30 league games for Real once. Now some of that is falling out with Zidane, but injuries definitely play a part.

Compare Pogba, Lukaku, or Rashford and you can see the difference.

You have to question how he would perform in this squad. I don't think it's anywhere near as well as he does in a Real Madrid shirt. Quite frankly, there're much better than us. Bale I think is a luxury a team like Real can afford, hell, he would be a player City could afford to take on, but not us.

Signing Bale would be a continuation of our haphazard transfer policy. Signing any big name just because they come available rather than according to the needs of the squad just hasn't worked. All transfers are a gamble, but this would represent far too big a roll of the dice for me. We haven't even managed to offload the massively expensive dud that was Sanchez yet, so I don't think we should be adding another potential one.


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Re: Why Not Bale?

Mon May 27, 2019 12:43 pm

Dante wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 12:33 pm
He's only played 30 league games for Real once. Now some of that is falling out with Zidane, but injuries definitely play a part.

Compare Pogba, Lukaku, or Rashford and you can see the difference.

You have to question how he would perform in this squad. I don't think it's anywhere near as well as he does in a Real Madrid shirt. Quite frankly, there're much better than us. Bale I think is a luxury a team like Real can afford, hell, he would be a player City could afford to take on, but not us.

Signing Bale would be a continuation of our haphazard transfer policy. Signing any big name just because they come available rather than according to the needs of the squad just hasn't worked. All transfers are a gamble, but this would represent far too big a roll of the dice for me. We haven't even managed to offload the massively expensive dud that was Sanchez yet, so I don't think we should be adding another potential one.
Well said Dante. Common sense really, you'd really think everyone would see it as this kind of star dust obsessed thinking has severely ruined us in recent years. Different strokes I suppose


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Re: Why Not Bale?

Mon May 27, 2019 4:47 pm

You guys keep focusing on the risks associated with buying the player even though absolutely no one has suggested doing so.
What has been suggested is that there is a reasonable chance that Bale could still be effective and as such the possibility of a loan deal should not be rejected out of hand.

Firstly, Bale is proven in the EPL so I don't think he'd could be classified as just a luxury player.
Secondly, if as Dante pointed out, Bale has only once played 30 games in a season during the 6 years he's been at Real, then I would think that in itself would prove his effectiveness, since with a limited appearance record, he has still scored 102 goals and pitched in with 64 assists.
Thirdly, as Glorio pointed out, Bale hasn't enjoyed the best of relationships with his teammates at Real. However, some of those reports will definitely have been exaggerated and hyped by the media and as he seemed to be fine with his teammates at Spurs, I'm not sure that he can be considered to be a player that wouldn't fit in because of attitude.

Sure it might not work out and based on what's happened with Sanchez, Schweinsteiger, etc, I agree that we shouldn't spend the cash to buy him but at the same time, I don't see anything that would prevent a loan deal from being at least considered.


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Re: Why Not Bale?

Mon May 27, 2019 4:50 pm

Nevermind Bale, we should be signing Jaap Staam and Ronny Johnson. Some of the tackles they put in yesterday were quality. Phil Jones would fall over his own feet and Smalling would be five yards off.




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Re: Why Not Bale?

Mon May 27, 2019 4:59 pm

Based on what I saw, he should add Becks to the list ;)
He sure as hell still crosses the ball better than anybody we have now and looks just as fit.


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Re: Why Not Bale?

Mon May 27, 2019 5:31 pm

Devil Pikney wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 4:47 pm
You guys keep focusing on the risks associated with buying the player even though absolutely no one has suggested doing so.
What has been suggested is that there is a reasonable chance that Bale could still be effective and as such the possibility of a loan deal should not be rejected out of hand.

Firstly, Bale is proven in the EPL so I don't think he'd could be classified as just a luxury player.
Secondly, if as Dante pointed out, Bale has only once played 30 games in a season during the 6 years he's been at Real, then I would think that in itself would prove his effectiveness, since with a limited appearance record, he has still scored 102 goals and pitched in with 64 assists.
Thirdly, as Glorio pointed out, Bale hasn't enjoyed the best of relationships with his teammates at Real. However, some of those reports will definitely have been exaggerated and hyped by the media and as he seemed to be fine with his teammates at Spurs, I'm not sure that he can be considered to be a player that wouldn't fit in because of attitude.

Sure it might not work out and based on what's happened with Sanchez, Schweinsteiger, etc, I agree that we shouldn't spend the cash to buy him but at the same time, I don't see anything that would prevent a loan deal from being at least considered.
Considered by who?
You are making an assumption that Real would let us take him on loan
If we were even considering taking him ANY club never mind one as cute and worldly wide as Madrid would know that Bale had passed Ed Woodward and the Glazer test aks a Glazernomics
They could/would use that to get Pogba or DDG which would defeat the object as a football exercise and one more time be a business only deal



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Re: Why Not Bale?

Mon May 27, 2019 5:33 pm

Devil Pikney wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 4:59 pm
Based on what I saw, he should add Becks to the list ;)
He sure as hell still crosses the ball better than anybody we have now and looks just as fit.
You are now remembering along with me what we had just as the Glazers appeared and comparing to what they have now left us with
And worse to come
Be under no illusion :( :(



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Re: Why Not Bale?

Wed May 29, 2019 11:08 am

Devil Pikney wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 4:47 pm
You guys keep focusing on the risks associated with buying the player even though absolutely no one has suggested doing so.
What has been suggested is that there is a reasonable chance that Bale could still be effective and as such the possibility of a loan deal should not be rejected out of hand.
A loan deal still involves us paying his wages, and him taking up a place in the squad. The knock on effects of that are not worth the gamble for me.


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Re: Why Not Bale?

Wed May 29, 2019 2:03 pm

Dante wrote:
Wed May 29, 2019 11:08 am
Devil Pikney wrote:
Mon May 27, 2019 4:47 pm
You guys keep focusing on the risks associated with buying the player even though absolutely no one has suggested doing so.
What has been suggested is that there is a reasonable chance that Bale could still be effective and as such the possibility of a loan deal should not be rejected out of hand.
A loan deal still involves us paying his wages, and him taking up a place in the squad. The knock on effects of that are not worth the gamble for me.
I am not sure what the gamble would be
This club does not worry about long term planning and appears to work in 3 year cycles
That's 3 years as the length of a lot of players contracts and 3 years as the length of most sponsors contracts
If United got Bale on board he would come with a chest full of sponsors and an airport full of Chinamen so where is the gamble?
Or are you talking just football :laugh: :laugh:



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