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raycreative
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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:08 pm

You are argueing about the players but human nature tells you that they are doing their best
They are just not good enough end of.
It is not their fault
Who bought them?
Blame Jose and LVG if you want but who gave Smalling and Jones new 5 year contracts?
Who gave Young another year?That is easy.Ole
So is it Ole's fault now
Who didn't and still doesn't know if Herrara is staying?
Is that Ole's fault now?
Who has offered Rashford,an England international moving towards the end of his contract half of what he can earn elsewhere?
Is that Ole as well?
Why won't DDG sign a new contract?
Is that Ole as well?
What is the transfer strategy for this summer,last summer and the summer before?
Nobody tells you anything other than the old managers who say they were let down by the management
Where is the director of football?

This club is in a total mess and going backwards with no sign of movement forward.No need to.The profits are up
Hasn't been moving forward on the pitch for 10 seasons if you were being honest
Still Young,Jones and Smalling and technically Valencia who were shit and done when SAF left
That must be Moyes fault

It's about time the fans marched like they did at Liverpool to get rid of Gillette and Hicks but the tourists don't march do they



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:12 am

The truth is that we failed to score when we could have got a goal.

We pressed but they beat the press by drinking the ball using there perfect passing. When we got Barca it was almost like.UEFA wanted us to lose.

Any other team we would have beaten them. Where was the man marking of Messi This Messi score 50 goals a. Season so he is like in the top 2 players in the world.

It was mission impossible and our poor finishing didn't help either.

On the positives we got to. The last 8.



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:07 am

raycreative wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:08 pm
You are argueing about the players but human nature tells you that they are doing their best
They are just not good enough end of.
It is not their fault
Who bought them?
Blame Jose and LVG if you want but who gave Smalling and Jones new 5 year contracts?
Who gave Young another year?That is easy.Ole
So is it Ole's fault now
Who didn't and still doesn't know if Herrara is staying?
Is that Ole's fault now?
Who has offered Rashford,an England international moving towards the end of his contract half of what he can earn elsewhere?
Is that Ole as well?
Why won't DDG sign a new contract?
Is that Ole as well?
What is the transfer strategy for this summer,last summer and the summer before?
Nobody tells you anything other than the old managers who say they were let down by the management
Where is the director of football?

This club is in a total mess and going backwards with no sign of movement forward.No need to.The profits are up
Hasn't been moving forward on the pitch for 10 seasons if you were being honest
Still Young,Jones and Smalling and technically Valencia who were shit and done when SAF left
That must be Moyes fault

It's about time the fans marched like they did at Liverpool to get rid of Gillette and Hicks but the tourists don't march do they
I don't blame Ole, I think the Jones and Smalling deals were done before he arrived and was probably part of Jose throwing his teddies out of the pram, he didn't want them in the summer, and was totally dumbfounded by the club offering them new contracts, maybe I'm putting two + two and getting five, who knows.., Young was another he wanted to fornicate off, and his extension further exasperated Jose.
For the life of me, I can't blame the Glazers either for the state of the squad, wherever the money has come from, they have paid out for the players, OK the amounts are in dispute, but they have authorised the spending.
The Glazers have to realise at some time that whoever is selecting the players to buy isn't doing a very good job, and needs to go.

I also think Ole bites his tongue a lot, he's not going to say in post match press conferences what he really feels and wants to say, if he is the person we think he is then I would love to be a fly on the wall of Eds office when that meeting takes place, saying we are a couple of levels behind Barca is bullshit, the players we have are at their peak, FFS Rashford & Lindgard are no longer kids, they are 27, the only reason they are thought of highly now is because they are ex academy players, they may be England Internationals, but that's no benchmark for me, England are just as shite ! Would they get into a City or Liverpool side ? Would they fornicate ! and they certainly wouldn't get into a Barca team, and being brutally honest, they would struggle to get into the Wolves side FFS.

To see the world class Pogba, we need two other world class midfielders with him, we don't have it, they make him look good, the guy is lazy, he jogs everywhere, you never actually see him run. Fred is not the player to be in the middle with Pogba, he needs someone in there to have a go at him, I get the impression that some of the players are in awe of him.

We don't have leaders on the pitch, the players are all too nice to each other, Young is a shite Captain, when he gave that goal away the rest of the team should have been bollocking him up one side and down the other, bellowing at him like fornicate, you just don't see it, against Wolves, Watford or Barca. DDG doesn't even have a go at his defence any more, VDS and Schmiechel could be heard by the front four rows. You need leaders on the pitch, if a player is playing like a birth canal.................someone should tell him, it's as if the whole dressing room has gone fornicate PC all of a sudden, theres no bite, no passion in the team.

At least when we got relegated the team still showed as if they cared, this lot don't and need a fornicate massive wake up call, and it should start buy telling them that none of them at the moment are good enough.

@davemart Sir Matt was always putting players on the list, and letting them go, he even put George Best on the list and Denis Law, but because we only have two windows a year, it doesn't have the same effect, you can't get rid of shite by shipping it out.
If we have to sell before we buy then so be it, get rid of it, lets have a couple of seasons bedding a new squad in, it's going to be rough ride if we keep this lot anyway, only for much longer.

IMO we should ship out all but
DDG
Herarra
Lindelhof
Dalot

Use the money to buy in two maybe three top players, and add a sprinkling of youth, it can't be any worse.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:28 am

All you need to know about this club, and all the problems at this club, is that Ashley Young is still starting at full back for us


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:43 am

Sigmar:

'Rashford & Lindgard are no longer kids, they are 27'

No they are not.
It helps to get the basic facts right when making a critique.



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:04 am

Sigmar wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:07 am
raycreative wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:08 pm
You are argueing about the players but human nature tells you that they are doing their best
They are just not good enough end of.
It is not their fault
Who bought them?
Blame Jose and LVG if you want but who gave Smalling and Jones new 5 year contracts?
Who gave Young another year?That is easy.Ole
So is it Ole's fault now
Who didn't and still doesn't know if Herrara is staying?
Is that Ole's fault now?
Who has offered Rashford,an England international moving towards the end of his contract half of what he can earn elsewhere?
Is that Ole as well?
Why won't DDG sign a new contract?
Is that Ole as well?
What is the transfer strategy for this summer,last summer and the summer before?
Nobody tells you anything other than the old managers who say they were let down by the management
Where is the director of football?

This club is in a total mess and going backwards with no sign of movement forward.No need to.The profits are up
Hasn't been moving forward on the pitch for 10 seasons if you were being honest
Still Young,Jones and Smalling and technically Valencia who were shit and done when SAF left
That must be Moyes fault

It's about time the fans marched like they did at Liverpool to get rid of Gillette and Hicks but the tourists don't march do they
I don't blame Ole, I think the Jones and Smalling deals were done before he arrived and was probably part of Jose throwing his teddies out of the pram, he didn't want them in the summer, and was totally dumbfounded by the club offering them new contracts, maybe I'm putting two + two and getting five, who knows.., Young was another he wanted to fornicate off, and his extension further exasperated Jose.
For the life of me, I can't blame the Glazers either for the state of the squad, wherever the money has come from, they have paid out for the players, OK the amounts are in dispute, but they have authorised the spending.
The Glazers have to realise at some time that whoever is selecting the players to buy isn't doing a very good job, and needs to go.

I also think Ole bites his tongue a lot, he's not going to say in post match press conferences what he really feels and wants to say, if he is the person we think he is then I would love to be a fly on the wall of Eds office when that meeting takes place, saying we are a couple of levels behind Barca is bullshit, the players we have are at their peak, FFS Rashford & Lindgard are no longer kids, they are 27, the only reason they are thought of highly now is because they are ex academy players, they may be England Internationals, but that's no benchmark for me, England are just as shite ! Would they get into a City or Liverpool side ? Would they fornicate ! and they certainly wouldn't get into a Barca team, and being brutally honest, they would struggle to get into the Wolves side FFS.

To see the world class Pogba, we need two other world class midfielders with him, we don't have it, they make him look good, the guy is lazy, he jogs everywhere, you never actually see him run. Fred is not the player to be in the middle with Pogba, he needs someone in there to have a go at him, I get the impression that some of the players are in awe of him.

We don't have leaders on the pitch, the players are all too nice to each other, Young is a shite Captain, when he gave that goal away the rest of the team should have been bollocking him up one side and down the other, bellowing at him like fornicate, you just don't see it, against Wolves, Watford or Barca. DDG doesn't even have a go at his defence any more, VDS and Schmiechel could be heard by the front four rows. You need leaders on the pitch, if a player is playing like a birth canal.................someone should tell him, it's as if the whole dressing room has gone fornicate PC all of a sudden, theres no bite, no passion in the team.

At least when we got relegated the team still showed as if they cared, this lot don't and need a fornicate massive wake up call, and it should start buy telling them that none of them at the moment are good enough.

@davemart Sir Matt was always putting players on the list, and letting them go, he even put George Best on the list and Denis Law, but because we only have two windows a year, it doesn't have the same effect, you can't get rid of shite by shipping it out.
If we have to sell before we buy then so be it, get rid of it, lets have a couple of seasons bedding a new squad in, it's going to be rough ride if we keep this lot anyway, only for much longer.

IMO we should ship out all but
DDG
Herarra
Lindelhof
Dalot

Use the money to buy in two maybe three top players, and add a sprinkling of youth, it can't be any worse.
I agree with all you say

Some points even more stronger than others and i would like to pick through just these points

I also don't blame Ole however i don't think he is the man for the job
He is a United hero and a lovely man.
I would hate to see him hurt and his reputation tarnished at the same time but this lot have proved time and time again with the way they have handled Giggs as manager and Scholes as both his assistant and as a possible youth team developer they don't give a shit
Sure Ole can motivate this team better than Jose but Jose had given up on the backing of the club and just wanted out
Love him or hate him he has been proven as correct as LVG was
There is no point in trying to motivate a combination of average players and top shirt sellers for football reasons

Jose wanted an entire defence
"I gave Mr Woodward a list of 5 defenders and he got me none"
LVG wanted top players
"I did as good as i could with 4th or 5th choice players"
You sum that up with "The Glazers have to realise at some time that whoever is selecting the players to buy isn't doing a very good job and needs to go"
I agree but this is not a one season scenario.Why haven't they realised it before?
Call me negative as you do but this decline has been kicking us in the balls for 10 years but nobody will face it
This buying policy of buying a combination of cheap shit and knackered old crocks like Falcao and Schweinsteiger and Zlatan has been going on for 10 years.The result is now so so clear that this team is following the Tampa Bay Buccs model into obscurity on the field that here surely can be no questions
All the previous managers have denied buying the players you now have and giving contracts to the likes of Smalling,Jones,Young and Valencia so are these managers liars or is it somebody else doing the transfers
Where i am sat the answer is clear
He even admits it if people open their eyes.
Who leaves on "urgent transfer business" but gets nobody
Why is there no director of football?Who has made that decision
When you ask the above questions but take into consideration of how we are doing as a profit making business you come up with the question "Why fix it if it ain't broken?"
You can argue all you want that if we don't get success or even improve then all is lost financially but where is the evidence.Even Woodward is happy that it is not necessary

I have no idea if Ole bites his tongie in press conferences but privately bollocks Woodward
He will actually have trouble finding Woodward as he is mostly in our Regents Park headquarters and Ole is in Manchester
I don't think you need to tell this team they are not good enough.We know it.They know it.But it is not their fault.They do the best they can

You suggest a two year plan to bed a new squad in.That is fairytale land.
It took City 4 years to change direction and that was with a desire to do so and unlimited funds
There is no sign of either from us
You want to keep 4 players.Fair enough but Herrara has gone because nobody offered him a new contract
DDG looks like he wants out as he won't sign the contract offered to him.
So that leaves you with 2 and needing possibly 13 players @ an average of £40m/50m each so over half a billion pounds needed.
You would get a few bob back from selling some but how much would you get?
And that is IF you want to consider that plan

We are at the end of another season
I see a dicking by City and an odd win or draw of the other games and a 5 or realistically 6th place finish

Everybody needs to accept that and then cast a serious look towards the club management to see what is happening

I hope if it is only cosmetic ie keep Jones,Smalling and Young and Fred and Lukaku and only buy a shirt seller like Bale people will finally accept i was right all along
If anything positive happens,which i hope it does then i will be the first to admit i have been talking shit for the last 10 years

The month of mid June to mid July will tell you all you need to know in what is more important
A tour of the tourists or serious transfer long term class players

Wait and see



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:49 am

As I said if we fail to take our chances against Barca we will lose. Messi is a player in a league of his own.

If this guy scores 50 goals per year we needed to man him out of game but we failed. 2 wonder goals they scored but we didn't look like a side that can win at the camp nou.



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:17 pm

Well, Lingard is 26, Rahford is quite a way off 27 at 21.

All our strikers need to be more prolific. Our top scorer in the league is Pogba with 13, top striker is Lukaku with 12. They all seem to have a pretty good rate of hitting shots on target, but they aren't converting them. That suggests to me their shots are too conservative. Anecdotally, I've seen quite a few shots from us that seem pretty tame, quite easy for the keeper to deal with. We are also creating less chances, which also impacts things. Once of these is surmountable, both together is not.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:03 pm

DaveMart wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:43 am
Sigmar:

'Rashford & Lindgard are no longer kids, they are 27'

No they are not.
It helps to get the basic facts right when making a critique.
My bad, combination of early morning typing and EBKAC


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:18 pm

I missed some games by being "off the grid" for a few weeks, but the Barca game was the first time I have seen an Ole starting 11 that did not work as a team. Very few United players should feel comfortable picking up their paychecks after that performance.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:31 pm

Arizona;

If I were in Fiji I probably would not care too much!

I am just watching Manchester City versus Spurs though, which is about the most amazing CL game I have ever seen, with two deadly strike forces, and two absolutely rubbish defences.

2 goals each scored in the first 11 minutes, and after 21 it is 3-2 to City, but Spurs have the away goals advantage at 3-3 aggregate.

It has solved one United conundrum at least.

Who could we play who would be worse than Young?

Buy Trippier, who makes Young look like a footballer! :-)

To your point: I don't think Ole made mistakes in setting his team up, selecting Young aside.

They needed a perfect performance, and missed at the front and made mistakes at the back.

The manager will always be dependent on the players performing,



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:44 pm

Look if we drew any other team besides Barca I'm confident we'd be in the semis. I picked Barca at the start and I'm sure they will win the UCL.



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:04 pm

Goku wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:44 pm
Look if we drew any other team besides Barca I'm confident we'd be in the semis. I picked Barca at the start and I'm sure they will win the UCL.
Maybe Porto or Spurs but any of the others .....................no way


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:37 am

Well Porto was what I hoped for but be that as it may at least shitty are out.

Kicked out by VAR



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:38 pm

You need to get the right guy to manage the club, Ole is the right man.

We have the money to put infrastructure in place to become world beaters again.

Frankly, Lukaku isn't a Man Utd striker. To be a Man Utd striker you need to be in the top 4 bracket in the world.

Goals wins games full stop. Berba, Ruud ect.



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:15 pm

Goku wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:38 pm
Frankly, Lukaku isn't a Man Utd striker. To be a Man Utd striker you need to be in the top 4 bracket in the world.

Goals wins games full stop. Berba, Ruud ect.
Right but, as much as I love him, Ole wasn't. Nor was Teddy Sheringham.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:38 pm

Dante wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:15 pm
Goku wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:38 pm
Frankly, Lukaku isn't a Man Utd striker. To be a Man Utd striker you need to be in the top 4 bracket in the world.

Goals wins games full stop. Berba, Ruud ect.
Right but, as much as I love him, Ole wasn't. Nor was Teddy Sheringham.
Both of those were impact players and if used sparingly and correctly they could turn a game
Larsson was another.A short spell only but hell did he make the difference
Liverpool used Fairclough like that for a good while and that worked

I watched shitty and shitty Spurs today.
A poor game but the difference for me was depth in squad
After that momentous game midweek City were able to dig into a squad that is deeper than Spurs and i believe that made the difference today

We don't have a starting X1 worthy of much never mind a squad to dig in

I am so looking forward to clearing out the shit and the unwanted this summer(Lukaku,Sanchez,Young,Valencia,Mata Herrara etc) and getting in 7 top players(To replace those 6 plus a replacement for Fellaini who we have not yet replaced)
Our scouts are out all round the world looking.Ole told us that yesterday
Presumably the hierarchy are searching for a director of football.Well they must be mustn't they
4 more weeks and all the world class players will be getting announced as we don't need a bank to put loans in place and even Goku says we need to replace a lot of players



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Sun Apr 21, 2019 1:30 pm

Dante wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:15 pm
Goku wrote:
Fri Apr 19, 2019 4:38 pm
Frankly, Lukaku isn't a Man Utd striker. To be a Man Utd striker you need to be in the top 4 bracket in the world.

Goals wins games full stop. Berba, Ruud ect.
Right but, as much as I love him, Ole wasn't. Nor was Teddy Sheringham.
But they got Ruud and the rest scored. Also we had Cantona. I down know but when the team wins it's good but if we lose the papers and our own fans turn on us.

Give Ole a transfer window then start making judgments. I like Ole's style of play we just need a director of football.

Get in the right players we need and we'll be OK. Ruud was one of the best.



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Champions League vs Barcelona (a)

Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:42 pm

Cantona was never prolific either. He only ever hit 20 goals ion a season once, and that was all comps, not in the league. Lukaku has hit 20 in the last 4 seasons.

I think he could certainly do with scoring more, but really it's Rashford and Martial we want to up their goals


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