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Saturday 20th July 2019, KO 12:30 BST.
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Goku
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Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:01 pm

After reading this kind of makes my blood boil or just sour grapes.

Give Jose 500mil pounds and he'll buy ready made players however I've not been a fan of Jose's style of play.

Jose went into the season with moaning that he didn't get defenders but we had the best defense in the prem.

I said when Jose was appointed he wasn't Man Utd meterial. In 17 games he only managed 27 points. Ole got more points more goals and we played some nice football.

Even in the Fergie Era we had bad time. A star is born could be said about Ole in management.

New idea and reinstilling the football that we love to watch. I mean Look at Pep 10 years ago was given the chance at Barca.

Ole needs that chance and he was a world class player and he could develop into a World Class Manager.

Tactically Ole is stout coz I've seen this first hand. Jose would have lost that Southampton game given the injuries and then shifted the blame.

During Liverpool match we created the 2 clear cut chances. We press high and we work our socks off in each game.

We made Chelsea and sarriball look average. We beat Arsenal. And we did it in style, yes Jose is a great manager but his style is frankly rubbish.

The super sub can become the super manager. Football is evolving and give the Young talented manager a chance.

He obviously knows how Man Utd play and During the Southampton game he tweeked it here and there.

In 1999 treble I still remember Ole sticking out the boot and the rest is history.

What was Jose's win percentage on his longer run. I'd rather lose 5-4 then winning 1-0.

Even Pep had test. Ole had got his ideas he said good things about Jose and at the first time. Of asking Jose stabs him in the back.

In that 2 years he won back to back titles with Chelsea to be honest 'Chelsea's football was rubbish.'

Give me trophies but give me beautiful football before trophies. Playing on the front foot is what we should always do.

Jose is a narcissist idiot. I have no doubt if he got an open Cheque to get the defenders and Persic we might have won.

But what about the future. We should never ever take a negative manager again. I just think Jose was a panic pick.

Look at how the players improve under Ole. CR7 would never have become the best in the world if Jose scouted him. Full stop.

Management is not just about winning it's about making players better.

Look this club is a family not just about one person.



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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:33 pm

So what were the quotes?


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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:54 am

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-15915359

He's essentially saying it's new manager bounce.


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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:14 am

Dante wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:54 am
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... r-15915359

He's essentially saying it's new manager bounce.

It is very difficult to actually work out why it is going so well for Ole
Certainly Ole is not,understandably ,as good a manager as SAF,as Goku is suggesting/implying
If he was he would have done better at Cardiff wouldn't he?

I personally think it is a combination of many factors at United
I think the players are busting a gut to prove Jose wrong after he pissed off so many of them
I think the fixtures have been kind(ish) to Ole
I think we played the potential banana skins at the right time ie Arsenal and Chelsea when they were in turmoil
Liverpool last week when their bums were starting to squeek as Everton showed yesterday
I think we dodged a bullet at Spurs and every other game was against weaker opposition
Yes they need winning, but the end result is that we have given ourselves a chance,and no more than that for a top four position
Despite Goku saying "we have the best defence in the prem" i do not think he will have a big fan club of that statement coz simply put we do not
Next season with VAR compulsory we will give away a huge number of penalties with Smalling's shirt pulling antics and you don't change lifetime habits that easily



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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:13 pm

raycreative wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:14 am
Certainly Ole is not,understandably ,as good a manager as SAF,as Goku is suggesting/implying
If he was he would have done better at Cardiff wouldn't he?
No. That was 5 years ago, at a club in totally different circumstances when he was a much more inexperienced manager. He's said himself that he has learned a lot from that time.

You could reasonably argue that if Alex Ferguson was any cop he wouldn't have been hanging around the relegation zone in 1989. I suspect he also learned a great deal from that time.

It remains to be seen how good Ole actually his, but holding his time at Cardiff against him doesn't really make much sense. I don't think Goku is arguing that Ole is as good as Fergie, more that he could be, which is an important distinction.


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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:49 pm

Dante wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:13 pm
raycreative wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:14 am
Certainly Ole is not,understandably ,as good a manager as SAF,as Goku is suggesting/implying
If he was he would have done better at Cardiff wouldn't he?
No. That was 5 years ago, at a club in totally different circumstances when he was a much more inexperienced manager. He's said himself that he has learned a lot from that time.

You could reasonably argue that if Alex Ferguson was any cop he wouldn't have been hanging around the relegation zone in 1989. I suspect he also learned a great deal from that time.

It remains to be seen how good Ole actually his, but holding his time at Cardiff against him doesn't really make much sense. I don't think Goku is arguing that Ole is as good as Fergie, more that he could be, which is an important distinction.
What I'm actually saying is that Cardiff was crap. And here we have talent. Plus Ole has learned during the 5 years as well.

When you a new doctor for example you do your internship after 5 years in practice you get better.

No secret I said Jose was not Man Utd material. Ole can become a great manager.

If there were two managers to. Manage say Barca one Jose and the other Ole. They the only two left.

Jose won't get the job coz of style and Ole would. No doubt Jose won a lot but football evolved and he missed a trick.

I think Ole knows the game and he is also a. Student of the game. Jose wants to be professor that knows it all.



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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 7:19 pm

Goku wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:49 pm
Dante wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:13 pm
raycreative wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:14 am
Certainly Ole is not,understandably ,as good a manager as SAF,as Goku is suggesting/implying
If he was he would have done better at Cardiff wouldn't he?
No. That was 5 years ago, at a club in totally different circumstances when he was a much more inexperienced manager. He's said himself that he has learned a lot from that time.

You could reasonably argue that if Alex Ferguson was any cop he wouldn't have been hanging around the relegation zone in 1989. I suspect he also learned a great deal from that time.

It remains to be seen how good Ole actually his, but holding his time at Cardiff against him doesn't really make much sense. I don't think Goku is arguing that Ole is as good as Fergie, more that he could be, which is an important distinction.
What I'm actually saying is that Cardiff was crap. And here we have talent. Plus Ole has learned during the 5 years as well.

When you a new doctor for example you do your internship after 5 years in practice you get better.

No secret I said Jose was not Man Utd material. Ole can become a great manager.

If there were two managers to. Manage say Barca one Jose and the other Ole. They the only two left.

Jose won't get the job coz of style and Ole would. No doubt Jose won a lot but football evolved and he missed a trick.

I think Ole knows the game and he is also a. Student of the game. Jose wants to be professor that knows it all.
Then to follow your theory to the end is there a reason why no other club has snatched him up or even considered him for that matter

Is it coz nobody else rates him?
I am not saying he is good or bad but to claim he was inexperienced at Cardiff but now after a spell at a fourth rate club in his home town gas made him experienced suggests that top clubs should be looking at managers of Bury,Norwich,FC United and Salford City reds coz they might be experienced



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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:10 pm

I've heard and read the Jose quotes. It some across to me as coming from someone who is very bitter that the players are now playing their best football this season.
People have questioned the fixtures, saying some have been easier....pardon me.......have a loda of teams been relegated and promoted since August ? Ole is playing the exact reverse of fixtures that Jose was losing and drawing, and coming out with more points, so thats a load of bollocks too.
So then they question his managerial record, another load of bollocks, teams were not exactly queuing up to sign Fergie were they ? and after a couple of seasons the press were labeling him as a failure too.

As I said in a previoyus post, we are winning, fornicate all else matters.stop moaning and reading the negative media and posts.


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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:01 pm

Guardiola and Zidane were reserve team managers.

What job did Ole do before he went to Molde?


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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:22 pm

The quotes from Mourinho are just typical Mourinho trying to deflect the blame for his failure with United and at the same time get attention back on his history. Over his career Mourinho has won combination of 25 league title, cups and other trophies over four different leagues, by any standard that’s a lot of success. His Inter Milan club won the “treble” which puts him into a very exclusive group of managers. He has had all type of experience with a “new manager bounce” because that pretty much sums up his career, with the exception of Porto; he has taken over teams who had decent personnel but were underperforming, he cuts out the deadwood and buys experienced players to replace them. One article I read states that Mourinho has spent over £1 billion on transfers, I’ll let you do the arithmetic.

On the surface Manchester United looked like the perfect place for Mourinho; the club has an impeccable history of winning but had not had much success in recent seasons, there was some decent talent at the club and enough money for him to buy whatever players he wanted.

So why didn’t Mourinho’s usual formula work at United?

Some will say that the players Mourinho got where not his picks, but everyone has seen what Mourinho does with players he doesn’t want on his team - think of Shevchenko at Chelsea - I cannot imagine Mourinho remaining silent if he has players forced on his that he did not want. Look at the player since Mourinho arrived: Pogba, any team in the world would have taken him, Zaltan a world class player who had already played for Mourinho, MickyT an experienced player with a good track record, and Bailly who is young(ish) but an up and comer. In his second year he brings in two of his former players, Lukaku (Baby Droga) and Matic, Sanchez a veteran superstar and Lindelöf full of potential, in his third year Fred, Dalot and Grant - basically potential and coverage. Look back on those picks and you will see that these are very typical of Mourinho picks history, they just didn’t work out for Mourinho at United. Maybe Mourinho misjudged their skills and they were not very good to begin with, maybe he was using them in a style that misused their skills, maybe the players just got sick and tired of being thrown under the bus. In my opinion it was probably a combination of all the above and other we have not yet heard of, whatever the reason Mourinho was managing a team that looked closer to relegation than changeling for a title.

The reality that Mourinho has to face is, that with the exact same players, against the exact same opposition Ole has gotten much better performances and results than Mourinho was getting and he has this team in fourth place - a task that Mourinho said would take a miracle. When Ole took over and the difference was like a light switch had been turned on, the team and the fans where having fun again. At first the easy answer was that Ole was allowing the team to relax and have fun - the feel-good factor. Then came; United haven’t played any good teams yet, wait until they go up against: Tottenham or Arsenal or Chelsea, or Liverpool, then we will see how good they are. Week after week Ole has shown that he, his staff and the players are more than capable of adjusting to the opposition - whoever they are and whatever they throw at us. Ole has gotten everyone associated with the club to work together towards a common goal - winning the next game and playing the way United should.


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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:15 am

ArizonaRed wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:22 pm
The quotes from Mourinho are just typical Mourinho trying to deflect the blame for his failure with United and at the same time get attention back on his history. Over his career Mourinho has won combination of 25 league title, cups and other trophies over four different leagues, by any standard that’s a lot of success. His Inter Milan club won the “treble” which puts him into a very exclusive group of managers. He has had all type of experience with a “new manager bounce” because that pretty much sums up his career, with the exception of Porto; he has taken over teams who had decent personnel but were underperforming, he cuts out the deadwood and buys experienced players to replace them. One article I read states that Mourinho has spent over £1 billion on transfers, I’ll let you do the arithmetic.

On the surface Manchester United looked like the perfect place for Mourinho; the club has an impeccable history of winning but had not had much success in recent seasons, there was some decent talent at the club and enough money for him to buy whatever players he wanted.

So why didn’t Mourinho’s usual formula work at United?

Some will say that the players Mourinho got where not his picks, but everyone has seen what Mourinho does with players he doesn’t want on his team - think of Shevchenko at Chelsea - I cannot imagine Mourinho remaining silent if he has players forced on his that he did not want. Look at the player since Mourinho arrived: Pogba, any team in the world would have taken him, Zaltan a world class player who had already played for Mourinho, MickyT an experienced player with a good track record, and Bailly who is young(ish) but an up and comer. In his second year he brings in two of his former players, Lukaku (Baby Droga) and Matic, Sanchez a veteran superstar and Lindelöf full of potential, in his third year Fred, Dalot and Grant - basically potential and coverage. Look back on those picks and you will see that these are very typical of Mourinho picks history, they just didn’t work out for Mourinho at United. Maybe Mourinho misjudged their skills and they were not very good to begin with, maybe he was using them in a style that misused their skills, maybe the players just got sick and tired of being thrown under the bus. In my opinion it was probably a combination of all the above and other we have not yet heard of, whatever the reason Mourinho was managing a team that looked closer to relegation than changeling for a title.

The reality that Mourinho has to face is, that with the exact same players, against the exact same opposition Ole has gotten much better performances and results than Mourinho was getting and he has this team in fourth place - a task that Mourinho said would take a miracle. When Ole took over and the difference was like a light switch had been turned on, the team and the fans where having fun again. At first the easy answer was that Ole was allowing the team to relax and have fun - the feel-good factor. Then came; United haven’t played any good teams yet, wait until they go up against: Tottenham or Arsenal or Chelsea, or Liverpool, then we will see how good they are. Week after week Ole has shown that he, his staff and the players are more than capable of adjusting to the opposition - whoever they are and whatever they throw at us. Ole has gotten everyone associated with the club to work together towards a common goal - winning the next game and playing the way United should.
Great post and some very good arguments raised, one you forgot though is that Mourinho at United seemd to have a knack of taking good players and coaching the talent out of them, whilst Ole seems to have put the belief back in the team.
Fergie was a master at it, remember the "it's only Tottenham" quote, and the speech at half time in 1999.

Unlike some I agree with you, I think that all of the purchases made under Mourinho were his, and when they didn't work out, he wanted to do a Chelsea, shun them, offload them and buy in more, the problem was United don't work that way, and I think he was basically told to work with what he had ......or fornicate off and it becsame a war of nerve he couldn't win, it was far cheaper to sack him than keep buying players he couldn't handle or coach, his ego is so large, he couldn't handle the likes of Pogba and Martial.


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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:03 am

We will never know who Jose bought and who Souse Ed bought
To be honest that is the sort of information that should remain confidential

However we can look at evidence of what we do know
We know the following due to exact quotes which have gone undenied

We know that Jose gave Ed the famous list of 5 defenders and got none
We know,in the past, that Ed left a pre season tour on "urgent transfer business" and got nobody
He seems very good at getting nobody
I have seen praise for Zlatan the shirtseller also.Indeed he was a very good player but that was before he joined us.By then his legs were going.Indeed we won the UEFA cup without him due to injury.
He was an exciting and charismatic player but his legs were going by the time he joined us.Same could be said about Schweinsteiger and Falcao and we will never know who insisted on them will we.We can only look at the pattern of signing long term contracts with old shirt sellers who last for one season and make a guess who is signing them

We know other things that we see with our own eyes
We know that Jones and Smalling are two average only centre halves who now both have long term contracts
We know that only Ed Woodward could have given it to Jones because he got it when we had no manager

And finally to keep it short we know that Ole wants the managers job as he is quoted as saying "it would be strange if i didn't get it"
Has anybody the slightest idea why he has not been given it??
We know that DDG wants to sign a new contract as his agent is quoted as saying so
Has anybody the slightest idea why he is having to wait for it?

And finally i think we should leave off Jose as,although he didn't play the style of football we all like he did win us trophies
Until somebody can prove to me he insisted on buying the shit we now have in Lukaku,Fred,Sanchez i have to give him the benefit of the doubt
Yes he is hurting and so he should
But so did Moyes and so did LVG and that is also correct that they hurt
But WTF appointed all 3 of them and is not hurting??Ed Woodward
He will be more upset about the weekends results at Goodison and Bouremouth than anything else

So what do you want.
Do you want exciting Arsenal style football that wins nothing but makes a good profit for the club
Do you want to go a bit deeper and want Liverpool style football where the first X1 is exciting and hard to beat but the squad is not strong enough to guarantee a sustained challenge
Do you want Spurs style football where two or 3 players such as Kane,Son and Alderweld carry them into a top 4 place with no hope of anything more.At Spurs profit is king and as such they are not buying anybody to bridge the gap to challenge
Or do you want Manchester City style football where you have a good number of great first team players backed by a huge number of very good players who combined can challenge on four fronts regularly without it feeling a one off.They can play most of a season without de Bruyne and you don't notice it
Or do you want United style attacking football which is a bit of a cross between Arsenal and Spurs ir some great players such as Pogba,Martial,Rashford,DDG and a few good players like Jesse but nowhere near enough to challenge for the Europe or the league



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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Tue Mar 05, 2019 4:38 pm

Some critical questions right there.


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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Tue Mar 05, 2019 7:52 pm

Look after LVG I wanted giggsy. But then came Jose not many people will understand the DNA of this club.

Ole should be given credit. 15 games and I think the new manager effect is gone.

Look Jose is a 3 season Manager. I was worried he might get the job long term but that nightmare is over.

We are united and that is not what Jose was it was talking the players down. Things like that should be kept secret.

Ole can become a great manager. He is Young and. hungry plus he loves the club. For Jose it was just a job



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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:23 pm

Imagine King Eric playing under Jose? My point is that Jose bought ready made players. He couldn't improve players.

But he was never Man Utd meterial.



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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:52 am

Lukaku on Ole:

Asked how Solskjaer has helped him, Lukaku said: "He's done a lot. When I came back in, for me, personally he had a plan.

"He wanted me to be really sharp in three or four weeks and that's what happened. We took three or four weeks, I did a lot of interval work and a lot of finishing and now I can say that I am fully fit.


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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:03 am

Jose praises Ole's 'incredible win':
https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... ermain-win



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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:05 pm

DaveMart wrote:
Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:03 am
Jose praises Ole's 'incredible win':
https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... ermain-win
Call me a cynic but for me this is typical Mourinho keeping hisself in the headlines.


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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:30 am

Glorio wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:52 am
Lukaku on Ole:

Asked how Solskjaer has helped him, Lukaku said: "He's done a lot. When I came back in, for me, personally he had a plan.

"He wanted me to be really sharp in three or four weeks and that's what happened. We took three or four weeks, I did a lot of interval work and a lot of finishing and now I can say that I am fully fit.
The second goal against PSG was tipi ally what Ole was talking about. Making that runs into the box.

Jose was good but he didn't play. We setting high standards now.



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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:43 am

Goku wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:23 pm
Imagine King Eric playing under Jose? My point is that Jose bought ready made players. He couldn't improve players.

But he was never Man Utd meterial.
All I saw him do was coach the talent out of players with his negative tactics.


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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:32 pm

For me Mourinho is the epitome of the adage, “when the only tool you have is a hammer, then every problem becomes a nail”. His style of play that had been very successful for him, he had been able to get buy-in for his style of football by persuasion, bully or simply getting rid of players that either didn’t want to or couldn’t play that style football. For a little while at United it looked like Mourinho might be willing to be a little flexible in his style of football, starting his second season as 4 - nil United and “let the horses run” gave me a little hope. However, by the time the LFC away game came around Mourinho reverted to his “my way or the highway” management style.

The more his style of football failed at United the more “Mourinho” he became - fighting with the board, the fans and players, it was a death spiral that could have only one outcome.

The only good thing that came from Mourinho's time at United is that now we have Ole at the wheel.


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Re: Jose questions Ole's long term impact.

Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:52 am

I personally support Ole 100 percent. Even started a petition at letolegunnarstay com.
Sign and share if you feel the same.



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