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Cardiff City in the Premier League.
Saturday 22nd December 2018, KO 17:30 UTC.
RED3bution
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Re: Jose

Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:49 pm

Glorio wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:20 pm
RED3bution wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:53 pm
If I had any say I would give Jose money to spend. I do not think he's the main problem, though he is in the most pivotal role, but I think that if Jose is backed, he is more likely to win something than a new manager will while retaining this lot. Most of them are babies I must say, according to reports.
You're right, if we sell everyone and buy a completely new team, he may win something, but he'll fall out with those new players the next year,or the year after, and he'll want more hundreds of millions. Is that really what we want? Another short term fix?


Tbh, the José employment has "worked" as well as could be expected. He came in, shook the place up, spent masses of money, delivered trophies in the short term (and bar the imperious form of City, we could be league champions), and now his trick is simply done, and we're tumbling downhill fast (complete mirror image of his 3rd seasons). I think it's been shown over and over again that he's not a long term solution. His abrasive approach doesn't work in the long term with most players.
Well I'm not saying shift the entire team. Some of them are more prepared to accept they need to compete than others. I don't mind different personalities in the team, but they cannot be made up of predominantly one type. We lack leaders and that is the start of the problem. Jose has not found a player that translates for him on the pitch with consistency.
If he has money to create some kind of competition between positions, he will be able to use that tension to extract something out of some of the non-shows. We have some new buys from foreign leagues, so a bedding-in period is expected.

De Gea is the only player without competition that has managed to maintain a World class level consistently. Shows what's in him. Every other position seems to have suffered.


"You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation, they turned to a man they didn't fully understand." -The Dark Knight

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Re: Jose

Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:14 pm

RED3bution wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:49 pm
Glorio wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:20 pm
RED3bution wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:53 pm
If I had any say I would give Jose money to spend. I do not think he's the main problem, though he is in the most pivotal role, but I think that if Jose is backed, he is more likely to win something than a new manager will while retaining this lot. Most of them are babies I must say, according to reports.
You're right, if we sell everyone and buy a completely new team, he may win something, but he'll fall out with those new players the next year,or the year after, and he'll want more hundreds of millions. Is that really what we want? Another short term fix?


Tbh, the José employment has "worked" as well as could be expected. He came in, shook the place up, spent masses of money, delivered trophies in the short term (and bar the imperious form of City, we could be league champions), and now his trick is simply done, and we're tumbling downhill fast (complete mirror image of his 3rd seasons). I think it's been shown over and over again that he's not a long term solution. His abrasive approach doesn't work in the long term with most players.
Well I'm not saying shift the entire team. Some of them are more prepared to accept they need to compete than others. I don't mind different personalities in the team, but they cannot be made up of predominantly one type. We lack leaders and that is the start of the problem. Jose has not found a player that translates for him on the pitch with consistency.
If he has money to create some kind of competition between positions, he will be able to use that tension to extract something out of some of the non-shows. We have some new buys from foreign leagues, so a bedding-in period is expected.

De Gea is the only player without competition that has managed to maintain a World class level consistently. Shows what's in him. Every other position seems to have suffered.
So we have Sanchez, Martial, Rashford - all who supposedly do best on the left hand side. What's going on there then? Only Martial seems to be doing a decent enough job. Then we have a right side which nobody does well in, then we have 6 midfielders in Herrera, Pereira, Pogba, Fred, Matic, Fellaini (not counting Mata). Mourinho bought 3 of those, and pushed to renew the contracts of others, we have 5 central defenders, Mourinho bought 2 of them, yet there are so many positions where almost everyone underperforming; a lot of these folks play/played a lot better for other big teams or their national teams. So why are most of them so poor under this manager? That's lots of competition!

Am I saying they're the best, and can't be improved? No ... but a lot of these players are actually very good, and have shown that in different environments, what evidence is there to suggest that whoever José buys will be any different? We've seen his buys already.

Guys, at some point you just have to point the finger to the obvious culprit


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Re: Jose

Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:36 pm

Are you a betting man Glorio?

I bet you that the problem with Manutd is not Mourinho. His track record {many different leagues with many different players) is too good for me to believe this. But if it should be that he is the problem, then I do not see how the board can make sense of keeping the problem to continue to fester. That is already indicative of the caliber of people that run the club directly. NOT the Glazers mind. I am not convinced they are the curse of the century.


"You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation, they turned to a man they didn't fully understand." -The Dark Knight

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Re: Jose

Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:37 pm

I don't think giving him money is as important as actually getting rid of the dead wood, getting rid of players who have no right to play for United, no idea what it means to play for United yet still sit here collecting a wage, wasting oxygen and causing fornicate shit in the dressing room


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Re: Jose

Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:55 pm

Sandies wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:37 pm
I don't think giving him money is as important as actually getting rid of the dead wood, getting rid of players who have no right to play for United, no idea what it means to play for United yet still sit here collecting a wage, wasting oxygen and causing fornicate shit in the dressing room
I understand what you mean but Mourinho is unlikely to work with academy players. Competition has a way of removing deadwood. I'm not talking about bodies but tough competition. A team where there's insecurity because you're afraid that your competition has a real chance of "stealing" your place on the team.
What's going on now is playing into these players' agents minds. Rashford for Lukaku, no goals. Sanchez for Lukaku, nothing. Sanchez for Martial, Zilch. This feeds the players mentality that it is the system and not them that needs tweaking. But we see the chances they get and we wonder why they are not converting. We see how we defended so well last year and this year we are so poor. Same coach, same philosophy. I understand how the force of economics makes it easier to blame and remove a coach as opposed to bringing individuals into the team, so the bells ring louder for Mourinho than for some in the squad. Too bad.


"You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation, they turned to a man they didn't fully understand." -The Dark Knight

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Re: Jose

Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:43 pm

RED3bution wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:36 pm
Are you a betting man Glorio?

I bet you that the problem with Manutd is not Mourinho. His track record {many different leagues with many different players) is too good for me to believe this. But if it should be that he is the problem, then I do not see how the board can make sense of keeping the problem to continue to fester. That is already indicative of the caliber of people that run the club directly. NOT the Glazers mind. I am not convinced they are the curse of the century.
With his style (which hasn't changed), first two seasons, yes. However, apart from Porto, I challenge you to tell me which record in different leagues and players you refer to in his third season.
It's not a fluke that it goes downhill from then, there is a reason his approach does not work for big clubs and big players after 2 years. I would turn it around and say his third season track record across many different leagues and players and chairmen is too consistently bad for me to believe anything else.

My theory is this: bully tactics can scare people straight for a short time, after a while though, it burns out. Your players/staff have to believe you have their best interests in mind - in any walk of life. There is tough love which is also paternal and protective (see Fergie's reaction to Keano laying into his team mates in public), and there is bullying (José through and through).

There's no love lost in that dressing room as far as I'm concerned. IMHO these sporadic good performances we see sometimes are due to the conflict in the players minds between playing for the shirt vs having no respect for their manager.


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Re: Jose

Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:43 am

https://www.biographyonline.net/sport/f ... rinho.html

He had this 3rd season syndrome 3 times with 2 clubs, twice at Chelsea and once at Madrid. 3 years is about the longest he's stayed at any of the 8 stints he has had as a manager. So you could say he has an expiration of just under 3 years based on the average of his individual stays at the clubs he has managed. So he's largely a short term fix by way of his job duration.

I would say that the 2 clubs he had the 3rd season syndrome thing at were/are difficult places to manage by most standards (I point to high turnover of managers). From 2004 (Mourinho's first stint at Chelsea) till date these two clubs have had a combined 25 different managerial tenures, including an extra 2 by Mourinho himself.
No manager incidentally has lasted longer than Jose since he took Chelsea to their maiden PL title. No other manager has lasted longer than Jose at Madrid in that period too. ie from 2004 to date.

Conte at Chelsea for whatever reason lost the dressing room too. David Luiz's life was not fun under his tenure and I suppose his (Conte's) demands got the worst of his players after getting the best in his premier season. I never heard anyone call Conte a bully. But Jose is a bully because he calls it out?


"You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation, they turned to a man they didn't fully understand." -The Dark Knight

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Re: Jose

Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:42 am

You can blame with some justification Jose all you like but is it really/solely all his fault?

It is clearly time for him to move on and i would suggest he wants to go
Why?
Because this club ,simply put,has no ambition beyond the bottom line,
Yet again that is showed only today

The papers are reporting that DDG will consider another contract if the club pay him parity with Sanchez AND convince him that Manchester United has ambitions that match his ie to try to win titles

How do United respond?
They trigger his one year extension thus maximising his potential transfer fee,which is fair enough but then at the same time they are reporting they are negotiating new contracts with Valencia,Young,Smalling,Jones and Darmian.
Obviously most of those contracts will be for less than the players are currently on due to their age

Now if i remember correctly Jose wanted FIVE defenders last year.A list he claims he gave to Ed and got NONE.
That statement has not been denied so we have to assume it is correct

Now some claim that this board back the manager with unlimited funds but i would respectfully suggest that this is fake news
And to try and presumably get signatures of those five above is sending a clear message to the manager and the fans which is "you can all fornicate off as we have no ambition but profit"



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Re: Jose

Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:53 am

Jose is reported in todays papers as saying,at the press conference yesterday,that he doesn't expect and incoming transfers in January

Now we are all informed by Mav that money is no object to this powerful organisation so we can only assume that Jose must be happy with this squad and his earlier comments of giving Mr Woodward 5 names to get must have been fake news!!!



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Re: Jose

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:24 am

Southampton sack Mark Hughes after a draw at Home against United, the board said they felt the team sholdhavve done better against a mid table side on the slide downwards.
Meanwhile Jose Mourinhou has another go at Paul Pogba, And David De Gea say he will stay if United make him their highest wage earner in the Championship.
United are 8 points off the top four, and 13 points off the bottom three.
All of this is the Glazers fault for failing to give Mourinhou another £22bn to spend on players he doesn't really want.


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Re: Jose

Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:17 pm

Sigmar wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:24 am
Southampton sack Mark Hughes after a draw at Home against United, the board said they felt the team sholdhavve done better against a mid table side on the slide downwards.
Meanwhile Jose Mourinhou has another go at Paul Pogba, And David De Gea say he will stay if United make him their highest wage earner in the Championship.
United are 8 points off the top four, and 13 points off the bottom three.
All of this is the Glazers fault for failing to give Mourinhou another £22bn to spend on players he doesn't really want.
Which bit of the above is wrong?
United are a mid table team on the slide down

Why shouldn't DDG be the highest paid earner?He has been the best and most consistent player in this club for the last 4 seasons at least.It's not his fault he doesn't sell shirts.Only plays top quality football
Pogba is playing for off.The Juventus deal is well advanced.He is fed up with looking up and only seeing Lukaku to play to

Jose clearly also wants off so why doesn't Ed sack him if Jose is so bad.
Answer.Because it will cost money and that is the real target at this club

If the board won't back him and won't fire him then what will they do
Presumably sit still and keep stum which is what they ALWAYS do



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Re: Jose

Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:16 pm

Jose and Pogba can both fornicate off.


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Re: Jose

Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:20 am

Relly wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:16 pm
Jose and Pogba can both fornicate off.
i agree
And i also think we should sell DDG and Martial who are both clearly greedy bastards and want to leave.
We should let them

There is talk of getting Howe as our manager to replace Jose
We've got Lee Grant as our goalkeeper and McTominay and Lingaard can replace Pogba and Martial

That just leaves us to sell Sanchez and replace him with Robben who has confirmed this is his last season at Munich

Sounds like a plan to me to get the big European clubs fearing us



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Re: Jose

Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:00 pm

raycreative wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:20 am
Relly wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:16 pm
Jose and Pogba can both fornicate off.
i agree
And i also think we should sell DDG and Martial who are both clearly greedy bastards and want to leave.
We should let them

There is talk of getting Howe as our manager to replace Jose
We've got Lee Grant as our goalkeeper and McTominay and Lingaard can replace Pogba and Martial

That just leaves us to sell Sanchez and replace him with Robben who has confirmed this is his last season at Munich

Sounds like a plan to me to get the big European clubs fearing us
I almost took you seriously. Nice one.


In general, this is where I don't get some fans. Jose was in the US screaming for some signings and they said he should handle it better and that he is killing morale with his public utterances. And now they are screaming for his head. I feel for him really because now it's the "3rd season syndrome" all over.


"You crossed the line first, sir. You squeezed them, you hammered them to the point of desperation. And in their desperation, they turned to a man they didn't fully understand." -The Dark Knight

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Re: Jose

Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:55 pm

most of the screaming,yelling and baying for blood is born out of frustration

Not only do the fans not know who they want to manage the team or play for the team they are getting no commincation or indication from the leeches that run this club

Despite an odd stoolie or mischief maker making comments this club,as Gary Neville said is rotten to the core
It is no longer a football club.It hasn't been for a while.It is just a brand and a cash cow and is deteriorating faster than the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and has about as much ambition for team success

Serious patterns emerge if you take the time to look
I am totally convinced the managers have minimal say in the transfer market
If they did why did Jose call Ed out with his famous 5 names at the start of this season

Where did Ed actually go a few years ago when he left the tour on "urgent transfer business" and got nobody
Why didn't the manager leave the tour if the manager does the dealings

I see a pattern where every manager gets a player that is close or possibly close to someone he knows
Moyes got Fellaini a player he knew
But do you believe he insisted on signing a crock in Falcao,a proven shirt seller
At the same time United invested massively by selling and loaning out 25 players

Moyes gets the sack and in comes LVG
He gets Blind,a reliable player he knows but do you think he insisted on Di Maria.A shirt seller who never wanted to join
United try to compensate by selling DDG.Is there a link?Who knows?

Next and final season LVG gets another player he knows in Depay who is given shirt selling duties with the number 7
But do you think LVG insisted on a knackered old shirt seller in Schweisteiger

Can you see the pattern emerging?

Now Jose got Matic,a reliable player he knew and they give him Pogba as a shirt seller along with Sanchez

So massive Glazer investment in the football club or massive investment in the brand
You decide



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Re: Jose

Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:58 am

(Y)


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