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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Sun May 03, 2015 10:19 am

Colin Francis wrote:
Short Back and Sides wrote:No, but having him in the deeper role would have meant Herrera further forward in a more creative role
And how did he in the advanced role help us in the previous two games? Its precisely his failure to convert our posession into attack thats been killing us recently. Backward passing and not turning and facing the opposition goal! He is not the creative player in this formation, Mata is, but hey Mata is the best midfielder on the planet so lets not mention him at all!
eh, isn't Mata an inside winger in this formation? :?
Herrera is the creative player but thanks to no proper support, he can't do his job well
yeah, you're right, it's killing,
but still Mata has little fault in this
and Herrera is not to be fully blamed for this, too

honestly, you better off with your "Jones as a DMF" theory instead of stupidly criticizing everything and not solving anything
at least there are still logical supporting arguments for that



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Sun May 03, 2015 10:59 am

0 goals scored, 6 conceded and 3 losses in a row since Carrick walked off

Im speechless at the decision to play RVP cm and Fellaini striker. Some of the shit done this year is mind boggling


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Sun May 03, 2015 11:43 am

Reverend wrote:
Colin Francis wrote:
Short Back and Sides wrote:No, but having him in the deeper role would have meant Herrera further forward in a more creative role
And how did he in the advanced role help us in the previous two games? Its precisely his failure to convert our posession into attack thats been killing us recently. Backward passing and not turning and facing the opposition goal! He is not the creative player in this formation, Mata is, but hey Mata is the best midfielder on the planet so lets not mention him at all!
eh, isn't Mata an inside winger in this formation? :?
Herrera is the creative player but thanks to no proper support, he can't do his job well
yeah, you're right, it's killing,
but still Mata has little fault in this
and Herrera is not to be fully blamed for this, too

honestly, you better off with your "Jones as a DMF" theory instead of stupidly criticizing everything and not solving anything
at least there are still logical supporting arguments for that
If Herrera is the creative player, what is Mata slick? What's Mata's role in the team? Told you before, you have no clue what to look for in the analysis, you're just a band wagon poster. Pretty sure you were disappointed when Mata was hauled off in the two previous defeats.

Your'e better off reading crap elswhere and re-posting it here then trying to make an analysis- you're just exposing your understanding of the game! Go play with your buddies now!


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Sun May 03, 2015 12:27 pm

still don't get why we don't play Mata in 10 role. That's his BEST position, and he's the best in our team in that role.

Putting Fellaini upfront.. well , it's happened few times this year, and frankly hasn't worked. We even tried it in the arsenal home game, and it just too predictable


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Sun May 03, 2015 12:58 pm

Mata as RAM worked for us when we have a true DMF (Carrick) and all the other stars aligned but one injured player and we still use Fellaini as CAM or SS and I was wondering what is RVP's position in the starting XI. 4-4-2 diamond? with Rooney and RVP up top and have Fellaini as CAM?

Fellaini has strengths but sometimes we really need to know what we wanted to do if we want our world class strikers get the chances they need to score goals. as a CAM Fellaini isn't your best option. physicality in the league might have triggered Fellaini's use but we are riding too much into it.

others didn't help themselves, especially Di Maria. there were several chances he could have done better with his crossing. I also wonder about Herrera's teasing cross is that really meant to be near top left corner all the time? and just swerve to the left side of the pitch? and saw it several times and what are they really trying to do and doing it several times?

we are poor tactically and out of position players didn't help. i thought RVP did a lot in the first half to nick that goal we need. he really looked sharp but when several posters here mentioned RVP as CM, which didn't help the players during the second half. and Rooney again i can't find my captain when we needed the most.

thinking about the line up - Fellaini is there, Rooney and RVP. why is Fellaini always inside the box especially he ain't your typical player to beat defenders inside the box. there was one scene that Fellaini retaliated and glad the ref didn't see it. For Falcao, won't work as nobody really have this creative passing and on a counter attacking position that would help him score goals, we are playing setup football on our attack which really make it hard for ourselves.

Saw a situation early on, a good quick attack but Rooney didn't tried to shoot it and passed to RVP and defenders came back and we lost a massive chance. not the biggest chance as Rooney isn't inside the box but he should really fancy those open shots since it is rare to see those opportunities nowadays compared to the 90s or early football.



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Sun May 03, 2015 1:26 pm

Giants14 wrote:I'm blaming him along with everyone else, he is the captain of our club- he should be leading by example, taking the game by the scruff and dragging players over the line..... Instead he looked lazy, slow and disinterested.

Putting RVP in the midfield and pushing Fellaini up top was criminal.

I really fear a top 4 finish now
This sums it all up.
Rooney has lost his leadership and inspirational qualities at the moment and it shows.
Some of LvG's tactical changes like the one above are mystifying to say the least.

We still have a 4 point advantage but I think we will scrape home possibly by goal difference.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Sun May 03, 2015 2:21 pm

was thinking of replying to Colin but then this thread will turn into a brawl (and I'm too lazy for that)

hmm, I guess saying I lost would be better in the future,
there, you may have your victory, mr. genius analyst

ps.: if you don't like my analysis, and think it's poor, then do me a favor and leave it. I do analysis not to gain some likes, I do that just because this is a forum where everybody can say what they think as long as they follow proper manner, and I like doing analysis.
You don't like it? skip it. I won't reply to you if you don't reply to me.



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Sun May 03, 2015 4:07 pm

Its like a joke how bad Di Maria is playing. Ship him off to PSG asap, he clearly isn't invested in United.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Sun May 03, 2015 4:11 pm

i was really depressed on Di Maria, those crosses when it seems everything is really setup and waiting for that ball to come into the box then all of the sudden they are way off the mark.

Is Di Maria more annoying than Nani?



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Sun May 03, 2015 7:30 pm

robertbrian23 wrote: Is Di Maria more annoying than Nani?
At least Nani had skills and every now and then he'd pull off something spectacular


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Sun May 03, 2015 10:35 pm

I did not get a chance to watch the game until this morning (Sunday); I was driving and had to listened to the game on SportTalk. The announcers were so bored that they end up talking about the new princesses, the weather and any other topic because there so little was going happening on the pitch. It wasn’t until 30 minutes into the game that they even mentioned Rooney’s name, I really thought that he had been pulled from the line up after all.

For the third week in a row the Mourinho blue print prove that we cannot break down any opposition that setup to defend, and keep United players in front of them. I probably should not call it the Mourinho blue print because we have had this problem all season long, this time instead of hitting us on a fast break WBA planned to score from set plays. Because of injuries and suspension we fell into a formation and style that allowed us to take apart teams that wanted to attack us and play open football, but like in any sport, the opposition learns quickly and adapts their tactics and style to counter what we were doing. We have not done that and we are not a good enough team to enforce our wills on discipline teams. Injuries have had a major effect on our lineup with many players paying out of their best role, but instead of adapting we have continued to try and play the same way with pitiful results. We continue to try and play triangles when we only have two parts of the triangle available. On the right Valencia cannot be relied upon because defenders know that if he is force to use his left foot the play is already broken down and Smalling or De Gea is likely to end up with the ball. On the left teams have figured out Fellaini’s role and are covering him a CB behind him and a midfielder in front of him, so even if he does win the initial contest he immediately has a defender snapping at his heels and again the play goes backward. Rooney’s short passing isn’t good enough for intricate combination or cutting passes that open up defenses, so he looks to get the ball out wide ever chance he gets. As the game wear defenders get very comfortable because they know what they are doing is working and our attackers get so frustrated that they are swinging at ball that comes close to them.

I cannot see any of our remaining opponent not using the same tactics that we have seen the last three weeks and unless we can figure out a of breaking down teams that want to setup a double row of defender we will have a difficult time holding on to 4th place let alone advancing higher up the table.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Mon May 04, 2015 7:02 am

ivandaman wrote:
robertbrian23 wrote: Is Di Maria more annoying than Nani?
At least Nani had skills and every now and then he'd pull off something spectacular
Di Maria is just having a bad season, I think...
de Gea was a joke when he first came here
now he is arguably the best GK in the world



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Mon May 04, 2015 9:12 am

Reverend wrote:
ivandaman wrote:
robertbrian23 wrote: Is Di Maria more annoying than Nani?
At least Nani had skills and every now and then he'd pull off something spectacular
Di Maria is just having a bad season, I think...
de Gea was a joke when he first came here
now he is arguably the best GK in the world
The difference being De Gea was an inexperienced young goalkeeper. Di Maria came here for a very large fee and is/was a world reknown top class player. Not really comparible


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Mon May 04, 2015 2:34 pm

HuSsAiN wrote:still don't get why we don't play Mata in 10 role. That's his BEST position, and he's the best in our team in that role.

Putting Fellaini upfront.. well , it's happened few times this year, and frankly hasn't worked. We even tried it in the arsenal home game, and it just too predictable
Well said. I've been harping on about this for ages now.

Just play our best first 11 with players in their correct positions, for the love of god!

IF Carrick is fit, this would be my first 11 for the Palace game:

------------------- Donut Dave -------------------

Tony.V -------- Smalling ------ Jones ---------- Blind

------------------ Carrick --- Herrera -----------------

-- Di Maria ----------- Mata -------------- Young ---

--------------------- Rooney --------------------------


Tell them to go out and express themselves.

We won't though - we'll see the dodgy 4-1-4-1 with Mata out wide right. Slow, predictable passing for 90 plus minutes.

Depressing stuff when we've got some really talented players on the books. Van Gaal's obsession with Fellaini is mind boggling as well.



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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Mon May 04, 2015 2:53 pm

Reverend wrote: Di Maria is just having a bad season, I think...

I hope he is just having a bad season
Reverend wrote:de Gea was a joke when he first came here
now he is arguably the best GK in the world
I hear this all the time and I have to disagree about De Gea's first season. For a very young player, at a new team, in a new league, in a foreign country I think he had a decent season. He did make a couple of howlers but which keeper hasn't had a screwup or two? The biggest complaint from his detractors was that he wasn't bulky enough and didn't boss his defenders around like a real English keep does. Although I cannot back this up with statistics I believe that even n his first year he saved us more point than he cost us.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Mon May 04, 2015 4:49 pm

Mike wrote:
HuSsAiN wrote:still don't get why we don't play Mata in 10 role. That's his BEST position, and he's the best in our team in that role.

Putting Fellaini upfront.. well , it's happened few times this year, and frankly hasn't worked. We even tried it in the arsenal home game, and it just too predictable
Well said. I've been harping on about this for ages now.

Just play our best first 11 with players in their correct positions, for the love of god!

IF Carrick is fit, this would be my first 11 for the Palace game:

------------------- Donut Dave -------------------

Tony.V -------- Smalling ------ Jones ---------- Blind

------------------ Carrick --- Herrera -----------------

-- Di Maria ----------- Mata -------------- Young ---

--------------------- Rooney --------------------------


Tell them to go out and express themselves.

We won't though - we'll see the dodgy 4-1-4-1 with Mata out wide right. Slow, predictable passing for 90 plus minutes.

Depressing stuff when we've got some really talented players on the books. Van Gaal's obsession with Fellaini is mind boggling as well.
In fairness to Fellaini he did have a couple impressive performances a while back. Unfortunately he has been found out and its not working anymore. We need to try a formation without Fellaini in it next game because its become too predictable.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Mon May 04, 2015 5:16 pm

I think Fellaini offers a good change up and "Plan B" option but he should not be the central role of our offense.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Mon May 04, 2015 10:46 pm

He wasnt part of plan b though. He offered something different in height and strength. A good example was against City when we scored from him winning the ball high in their half, knocking the defender in the process. People saying hes shit now (or words to those effect) should realise everyone else has been shit too. You can hardly say he warrents dropping when player A and B have been just as poor


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Tue May 05, 2015 1:32 am

Fellaini was plan B from the perspective that he was something different, a physical presence in the attacking third that we had not used up to that point. This took defenses by surprise and they did have a clue how to handle him, unfortunately defenders learn quickly and as we saw in the second half of the Liverpool game. In the first half Fellaini ran them ragged but after the half Skirtel made sure that anytime the ball came to Fellaini he was closely marked and unable to turn, also a midfielder was fronting him so if he won the challenge they had someone to immediately go after the ball. Chelsea did pretty much the same thing with Zumba(?) and Oscar.

It’s not that Fellaini has turn to shit overnight its more than defenses have caught on to what we are doing as a team and specifically to Fellaini’s role in what we are attempting to do. When given a role to play Fellaini plays his ball off to get the job done and has usually done it well. I think he would be better used against specific teams (Arsenal for example) or to change a game. I do not think playing him game after game in the same role is good for him or the team.


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Re: Pre/Post Match Discussion: Premier League vs West Brom (

Tue May 05, 2015 5:47 am

Short Back and Sides wrote: The difference being De Gea was an inexperienced young goalkeeper. Di Maria came here for a very large fee and is/was a world reknown top class player. Not really comparible
ArizonaRed wrote: I hear this all the time and I have to disagree about De Gea's first season. For a very young player, at a new team, in a new league, in a foreign country I think he had a decent season. He did make a couple of howlers but which keeper hasn't had a screwup or two? The biggest complaint from his detractors was that he wasn't bulky enough and didn't boss his defenders around like a real English keep does. Although I cannot back this up with statistics I believe that even n his first year he saved us more point than he cost us.
de Gea was young but he's already very good when we bought him
they say: "The statement "Spanish league does not have a keeper" was wrong during de Gea's spell with Atletico Madrid."
of course, even at his early days, he already saved as more than cost us, that has no need of statistic

why do I pointed out de Gea's early days? because I think it's the same problem
problem with de Gea: he was so thin, his athleticism was not good enough for EPL
di Maria this season: he got injuries, and that kinda made him afraid (we don't see his magical dribbling skills again, don't we?)
it means his muscle is not strong enough to work in an EPL standard, and he knows that
looks like it comes from the same department (if you don't want to call it "the same problem")

it's just temporary, di Maria made many wrong passes lately, but at least he got one right in almost each match
and most of them turned into an assist



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