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When do we question Van Gaal?

Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:59 pm

Getting a bit samey now. Sticking with a formation that has really not worked. Playing dreadful football despite playing Di Maria, RVP, Rooney and Mata. Some games we've won through some top class players individually. We've not produced a top class peformance all season.
Bringing Fellaini on up front too. Moyes didnt actually do that but got crucified for apparently doing it.


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:35 pm

When we finish 7th


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:45 pm

LVG is the right man he's got the team in order & confidence is up BUT he really needs to drop the 3-5-2 formation.
If we don't finish Top 6 he should be questioned but to be calling for his head is way to early! Next season should be of no excuse & that's when he should be held accountable if we don't finish top 4!


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:04 am

Relly wrote:When we finish 7th
So because there are more inept teams this season, the manager can't be questioned?


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:59 am

Relly wrote:When we finish 7th
we've spent millions more than we did with moyes. they should not be judged on the same scale. the fact that he has dropped so many points because he insists on a formation that everyone sees is not working is enough for me to question him. he better turn this around soon. lets face it, its only his CV that is saving his ass from some serious criticism right now.



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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:12 am

If we don't finish in the top 4 we don't need to question him.. We should boot him out of the door and he should never be allowed in football stadium again.. Spending fornicate 200 mil and not getting in the CL is criminal..


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:26 pm

Relly wrote:When we finish 7th
actually when we finish 7th and he looks like he hasnt a clue what to do next and the dressing room starts to turn on him..i.e. no time soon.

Form is temporary, class is permanent etc


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:41 pm

I believe we have the same number of points as we had last season, but our position is different. If you consider that our position is better than last year's because other teams are failing, wouldn't you think that we should have more points that we had last season since our team is squad much stronger (although not complete) than it was?


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:43 pm

Sia wrote:
Relly wrote:When we finish 7th
we've spent millions more than we did with moyes. they should not be judged on the same scale. the fact that he has dropped so many points because he insists on a formation that everyone sees is not working is enough for me to question him. he better turn this around soon. lets face it, its only his CV that is saving his ass from some serious criticism right now.
Pretty good summary there.


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:52 pm

Except he is getting criticism. I opened ESPN this morning and there was 3 articles on the front page questioning him. That isn't the only website either, its just my first one of the day, so I took notice of it.

On top of that LVG has been taking criticism since very early in the season, it did let up because of our streak of not losing, but people were on LVG's case way earlier than they got on Moyes'.


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:01 pm

No they weren't.


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:04 pm

Let me explain better because that's a bit dismissive without any backing. People, even on here, were on Moyes' case the day he was announced as the next manager.


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:20 pm

Matt wrote:Let me explain better because that's a bit dismissive without any backing. People, even on here, were on Moyes' case the day he was announced as the next manager.
Yes, I was one of them. And I would say the majority accepted it and got behind him, especially on this site. I believe it was Dec before I actively started criticizing Moyes and calling for his job, and I was one of, if not the first on this site to do so. People were on LVG case by September.


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:38 pm

Arguably Moyes was the better of the two.


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:59 pm

Relly wrote:
Matt wrote:Let me explain better because that's a bit dismissive without any backing. People, even on here, were on Moyes' case the day he was announced as the next manager.
Yes, I was one of them.  And I would say the majority accepted it and got behind him, especially on this site.  I believe it was Dec before I actively started criticizing Moyes and calling for his job, and I was one of, if not the first on this site to do so.  People were on LVG case by September.
So people (you're admitting that you were one of them) were on Moyes' case before LVG then.

It was pretty 50/50 with Moyes by December, I started changing my mind around the turn of the year if I remember correctly.

The only difference with Moyes was that he was chosen by SAF. Which gave him a bit of a helping hand, would have been much worse if that wasn't the case.


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:39 am

RedSte wrote:
Relly wrote:When we finish 7th
actually when we finish 7th and he looks like he hasnt a clue what to do next and the dressing room starts to turn on him..i.e. no time soon.

Form is temporary, class is permanent  etc
I missed this earlier, pretty much says it all.


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:48 am

Matt wrote:
Relly wrote:
Matt wrote:Let me explain better because that's a bit dismissive without any backing. People, even on here, were on Moyes' case the day he was announced as the next manager.
Yes, I was one of them.  And I would say the majority accepted it and got behind him, especially on this site.  I believe it was Dec before I actively started criticizing Moyes and calling for his job, and I was one of, if not the first on this site to do so.  People were on LVG case by September.
So people (you're admitting that you were one of them) were on Moyes' case before LVG then.

It was pretty 50/50 with Moyes by December, I started changing my mind around the turn of the year if I remember correctly.

The only difference with Moyes was that he was chosen by SAF. Which gave him a bit of a helping hand, would have been much worse if that wasn't the case.
I was very much against Moyes getting the job when SAF announced his retirement and that rumor was running rampant. I was absolutely gutted when Moyes got the job because I don't rate him as a manager and hate his brand of football. I was quite upset for the first day or two, but after that sucked it up and got behind him. When it was becoming painfully obvious that every fear I had was legit and playing out in front of me I stopped supporting him. I am not some programmed sheep that does whatever the club tells me. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt and support him but I wasn't going to support him to the detriment of the club like some people.

And LVG isn't perfect in my eyes and I am getting quite fed up with his insistence on using the 3-5-2 formation and his apparent dislike of Falcao but he is quite honestly one of the best in the game and if we stick with him its almost certain to pay off, because it has for anyone else who has employed him.


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:18 pm

Truly great managers have the ability to adapt their style of playing to get the best out of the players they have available. No manager is going to be able to get a starting 11 that totally fit their style of play, this means that sometimes he must play a style that is outside his comfort zone because that is what suits the squad best and provides the best chance for victory. I think because of the success Holland had in the World Cup that Van Gal believes that playing 3-5-2 (or 5-3-2) was the best way to disguise just how bad our defense actually was. Injuries have also probably played a part in that decision, but from the opening game of the season it has been very apparent that that formation with these players was never going to work in the premiership. We have had some wins using this formation, usually scrappy and lucky wins where we have been totally outplayed, and that has disguised just how badly we have played. Whilst we are winning games it was easier to overlook piss poor performances; however we have only one league win in our last five outings (I know it’s just playing with numbers) and I don’t think we have put a decent performance together since the Newcastle game.

It is long pasted the time where we should be stuck with any formation; similar to last season trying to play 4-4-2 without wingers who were capable of making a decent cross, this season we are trying to play 3-5-2 without any speed in the midfield minimal defensive awareness and an inability to make two forward passes in a row. A great manager should be able recognize this and adapt his personnel, strategies and formation to take advantage of the squads strength and not play a formation that his players do not appear incapable of executing.


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:23 pm

The one problem I have at the moment is I dont believe our defence is that bad at all. Smalling and Jones are very capable defenders. Our problems this season recently have been scoring goals. We defended ok yesterday and only conceded a freak goal. Blackett dropped off his man (I dont know why Shaw was taken off) and they got an exceptionally lucky bounce off the post. Anywhere else and it wouldnr have been a goal. However we struggled intensely in the final third which has been the story of many games this season. When you have Rooney, Mata, Van Persie and Di Maria on the pitch and dont manage a shot on target, you have problems.


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:40 pm

The setup is wrong, and our defenders aren't suited for it. Also most of our players are used to having either a winger or a full back to pass to, now it's just one player going up and down the wing, and he's not always available. Wingbacks are one of the main problems, the other is lack of ball playing defenders.

Our defenders are good at defending, though they make stupid mistakes on a regular basis, but not much else. And the setup needs defenders that can do more than just defend.


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Wed Jan 14, 2015 1:47 pm

Relly wrote:When we finish 7th

I predicted at the start of the season we would finish around 5th or 6th, or maybe 7th as you say. I'm not certain we will even finish that high in the league. He has the personnel to finish in the top 4 but if he continues to play the present system with 3 at the back and the players he selects we're sunk.

I've also said I think he will walk away when the going gets tough.



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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:12 pm

Relly wrote:
Matt wrote:Let me explain better because that's a bit dismissive without any backing. People, even on here, were on Moyes' case the day he was announced as the next manager.
Yes, I was one of them.  And I would say the majority accepted it and got behind him, especially on this site.  I believe it was Dec before I actively started criticizing Moyes and calling for his job, and I was one of, if not the first on this site to do so.  People were on LVG case by September.

I was another who said Moyes was the wrong man from day one.

As for Van Gaal, he may have been successful in the Netherlands, Spain and Germany but he is finding it much much more difficult in the Premiership. Our recent success over the past 20/25 years has been based on 4-4-2 attacking football played with 2 wingers, certainly in the Premiership.

My view at present is that he has fornicate things up big time by playing his stupid systems and should be shown the door pdq. We must remember that we are a business as well as a football club.



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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:19 pm

Short Back and Sides wrote:The one problem I have at the moment is I dont believe our defence is that bad at all. Smalling and Jones are very capable defenders. Our problems this season recently have been scoring goals. We defended ok yesterday and only conceded a freak goal. Blackett dropped off his man (I dont know why Shaw was taken off) and they got an exceptionally lucky bounce off the post. Anywhere else and it wouldnr have been a goal. However we struggled intensely in the final third which has been the story of many games this season. When you have Rooney, Mata, Van Persie and Di Maria on the pitch and dont manage a shot on target, you have problems.

Ste, our defence is crap, Smalling, Jones and Evans are probably the poorest defenders in the league. Open yor eyes for goodness sake.



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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:31 pm

Bruceyuk wrote:
Relly wrote:
Matt wrote:Let me explain better because that's a bit dismissive without any backing. People, even on here, were on Moyes' case the day he was announced as the next manager.
Yes, I was one of them.  And I would say the majority accepted it and got behind him, especially on this site.  I believe it was Dec before I actively started criticizing Moyes and calling for his job, and I was one of, if not the first on this site to do so.  People were on LVG case by September.

I was another who said Moyes was the wrong man from day one.

As for Van Gaal, he may have been successful in the Netherlands, Spain and Germany but he is finding it much much more difficult in the Premiership. Our recent success  over the past 20/25 years  has been based on 4-4-2 attacking football played with 2 wingers, certainly in the Premiership.

My view at present is that he has fornicate things up big time by playing his stupid systems and should be shown the door pdq. We must remember that we are a business as well as a football club.
It's not about playing 4-4-2 because we did it for 20/25 years, it's about playing a system that works. And 3-5-2 doesn't.

I wonder who could replace him if he's shown the door though.


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Re: When do we question Van Gaal?

Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:26 pm

Matt wrote:I wonder who could replace him if he's shown the door though.
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