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Brighton in the Premier League.
Saturday 26th September 2020, KO 12:30 UTC.
DaveMart
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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:08 pm

Matt wrote:
Martin wrote:Rooney was fantastic. Come at me bros.
Fickle wanker.
Is that a reply to Martin, or just a reminder for your Christmas shopping?



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Matt
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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:28 pm

Both


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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:44 pm

They were very complimentary on MOTD about how organised our defence was, and illustrated it well.

Its worth while suffering a bit to see the glimmer of a decent defence emerging, with both Blackett and McNair coming good, and the likes of Smalling and Young.



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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:56 pm

DaveMart wrote:They were very complimentary on MOTD about how organised our defence was, and illustrated it well.

Its worth while suffering a bit to see the glimmer of a decent defence emerging, with both Blackett and McNair coming good, and the likes of Smalling and Young.
Plainly there has been a lot of work on defence on the training ground, so that it functioned well despite changes in personnel as the guys get used to the system.

Its good we have a boss who understands defence and can produce that, as Arsenal have consistently not done over the years under Wenger.

They still have a lot to learn, but we have the makings at least.



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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:00 pm

is this our 1st away win this season? :D



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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:05 pm

Yes, yes it is.


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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:16 pm

I actually don't understand how our defence is getting any praise after that game. I thought Smalling was decent and both wing backs put in a decent shift, but Blackett and McNair both had poor games, and the entire back line suffered. Arsenal looked like scoring every time they got into the final third. Gaps were everywhere and on another day we could have easily conceded quite a few. That was to be expected with the defence we put out today though. A defence with kids and wingers couldn't realistically resist a very good attacking side in Arsenal and signalling out players for criticism under such circumstances is probably unfair. I just don't get praising the defensive part of a United team that looked very lost and open today.

10/10 for effort and determination, though. Carrick and Fellaini started the game poorly then managed to take some sort of control over the centre of the pitch in the second half. I thought both of them used the ball very well and made the right decisions with it throughout. Valencia (and Young) put in a great effort. Got sucked into the middle a little too much during the second half, but he gave everything. As did most of the players today to be fair. A very committed display. Rooney and De Gea showed their quality big time.

I hate to criticise players after a big result, but van Persie's performance today was just unacceptable. I read somewhere that he only made two passes today. Two. Very poor on the ball and did absolutely nothing without it. Trying to play him into form is clearly not working ... maybe dropping him for a couple of games will?



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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:32 pm

Van Persie has done nothing throughout the season and needs to be benched. It's pretty simple, if you ask me. Not sure what's going on there.


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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:45 pm

Keano wrote:I actually don't understand how our defence is getting any praise after that game. I thought Smalling was decent and both wing backs put in a decent shift, but Blackett and McNair both had poor games, and the entire back line suffered. Arsenal looked like scoring every time they got into the final third. Gaps were everywhere and on another day we could have easily conceded quite a few. That was to be expected with the defence we put out today though. A defence with kids and wingers couldn't realistically resist a very good attacking side in Arsenal and signalling out players for criticism under such circumstances is probably unfair. I just don't get praising the defensive part of a United team that looked very lost and open today.

10/10 for effort and determination, though. Carrick and Fellaini started the game poorly then managed to take some sort of control over the centre of the pitch in the second half. I thought both of them used the ball very well and made the right decisions with it throughout. Valencia (and Young) put in a great effort. Got sucked into the middle a little too much during the second half, but he gave everything. As did most of the players today to be fair. A very committed display. Rooney and De Gea showed their quality big time.

I hate to criticise players after a big result, but van Persie's performance today was just unacceptable. I read somewhere that he only made two passes today. Two. Very poor on the ball and did absolutely nothing without it. Trying to play him into form is clearly not working ... maybe dropping him for a couple of games will?
Perhaps I am being unduly lenient on our back line, but I thought our problem was essentially in the midfield, who neither covered the back line nor provided anything for the forwards, and conclusively lost the battle in the middle of the pitch.

There is not too much wrong with Arsenal going forward, and most teams will have trouble containing them if they are given too much of the ball, so under the circumstances I thought our still makeshift defence and young defenders did reasonably well, and the defence kept its shape well.



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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:01 am

What's with the negativity? with our injuries, I will take any victory..yeah we rode our luck , ddg made fantastic saves again, but at times we defended well, and the young lads at back did okay.. Carrick was brilliant again, this guy is so underrated.young did well at LWB - that's not his position, but he defended well too

Fellaini was good, and his passing has gone better, that little pass for the second goal was very composed of him

Di Maria should've made it 3-0, the last few minutes were so tense.. something is wrong with RVP - definitely struggling

glad to get our first away win, now with two home games, it's time we get some points on board.

and martin, i love you (no homo)


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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:11 am

A lot of whinging but we got the win I said we would. We defended well and picked our moments. De Gea, Blackett, Fellaini and Mcnair were brialliant. Fellaini bossed that midfield. Di Maria should really have made that chance count. We grew into the game and it was a cracker.

Also, did no one notice Wilshere go to lay a headbutt on Fellaini? Should have been off tbh


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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:53 am

Not only did we rob Arsenal today, but we also moved into their houses and settled down with their wives and kids.

Talk about smash and grab.

Not falling for the praise of our defense - thought McNair and Blackett struggled all night, and the only reason we were in that contest at half time was, as usual, because David de Gea is brilliant (I will cry an ocean's worth of tears when he eventually returns to Spain).

Once we went ahead though, we had something to hold onto and definitely improved. Before that, I thought we were so poor in most aspects of our game - ball retention, closing down in defense, tracking runs in midfield. It was all a mess, and to no surprise, it was in a 3-5-2 formation.

Overall though, can't complain about a great result, and every time you win at the Emirates it's a great result. When you have the likes of Rooney and Di Maria in your squad (thought the #7 was brilliant today), you always have a chance.

We will take it and run, but let's not pretend that win was by design - massive amount of luck behind that, and both McNair and Blackett let off the hook by a really poor Arsenal side that really should have hammered us.


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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:09 am

One shot, 2 goals. Talk about efficient.


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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:43 am

I have to wonder if LvG is telling our defenders to just boot the ball anywhere to clear it. I noticed it earlier on in the season when we were under the cosh and I thought it was just inexperience on behalf of our young defenders and that LvG would cut it out. So many times yesterday our defenders hoofed the ball anywhere, that isn't the United way and I suspect this is what's having an impact on RvP's form, as essentially he's trying to do for us, and failing, to do the job that the likes of Crouch do at Stoke and the role that Felaini played at Everton. RvP, even though he's quite a tall guy, is no target man. The defenders need to keep it on the floor.

DDG motm closely followed by Rooney who put in a real captains performance.



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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:08 am

mikey wrote:I have to wonder if LvG is telling our defenders to just boot the ball anywhere to clear it. I noticed it earlier on in the season when we were under the cosh and I thought it was just inexperience on behalf of our young defenders and that LvG would cut it out.
Sure they did, and I suspect they were told to do that by someone, perhaps Smalling who after all had to organise the back line with some newbies around him.
Some of you guys have high standards, they held out, were organised and put in some great blocks.
There are a lot of more experienced defences that won't be able to say they did that against the Arsenal attack.



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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:59 am

Matt wrote:Van Persie has done nothing throughout the season and needs to be benched. It's pretty simple, if you ask me. Not sure what's going on there.

Teachers pet!



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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:00 am

How the heck did we come away with 3 points in that match after the first half?

They battered us, with a combination of poor finishing and great goalkeeping- it just shows what happens when you stay in the game.

2nd half we grew and grew and picked arsenal off on the counter- Di Maria should have rubbed salt into the wound before Giroud cracker.

That game summed up arsenal season but good golly miss molly how huge was that for us! We are into the top 4 and played with half a team so far- hopefully over the next week we'll get some guys back!

RVP issue is baffling- we all know how good this guy is but for whatever reason he is miles off he pace- Wilson looks more about him at the min.

Remember don't get too high on the highs and too low on the lows- two huge home games now coming up - 6 points are a must!


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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:12 am

"How the heck did we come away with 3 points in that match after the first half?"

Wellbeck is the reason why.



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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:13 pm

Merlin wrote:"How the heck did we come away with 3 points in that match after the first half?"

W[strike]ellbeck[/strike]ilshere is the reason why.
Fixed


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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 3:31 pm

Something I havent mentioned that was rather pleasing was when we were 2-1 up with very little time left, some of the balls shown by playerd like Carrick, Smalling and Mcnair to put last ditch tackles/blocksin. When they pulled that goal back to make it 2-1 I thought they would go on and score another, especially after seeing Di Maria cock up that one on one, but we didnt let them get their shots in. Was pleased the way we battled at the end.


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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:52 pm

Terrible football, but 3 huge points!!
In Van Gaal's opinion, the best way to handle our injury crisis was by shutting up shop, and see what Rooney/Di Maria could do on the counter. I didn't agree with that before the game, and i still think we can easily beat this Arsenal team by just outplaying them. Their defense is just as poor as well and our attack is much better.
In practice it clearly didn't work either, but thanks to a sublime David De Gea we were kept in the game, and Arsenal were just too poor once we got a chance to settle down a bit. We showed great determination for the rest of the game, fantastic team effort in the end!
Anyway, we got luck on our side today, finally, we were due some. This time we have to build on it and keep 6 points at home in the next few weeks. To do that we'll have to start playing football again though, like we did 1-2 months ago.



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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:15 pm

Matt wrote:[pen]Only managed to get home at the 70 minute mark. Can't say I saw much of what you guys are saying, seems like it was the first half that was a mess.[/pen]

Having said that, I didn't all that headless running after the ball, and we can thank our lucky stars that Arsenal are shit at finding goals.

A lucky win like this may turn the tide though, we've been unlucky this season with a lot of injuries, and obviously confidence wasn't high, not a bad way to change that.

I suggest you do - the level of the lack of quality was a revelation - true story. Never foresaw is play so badly. They were running us ragged and most other teams would have emphatically put us the sword and ended the game as a contest. And I'm talking cricket score type levels of embarrassment


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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:26 pm

Merlin wrote:"How the heck did we come away with 3 points in that match after the first half?"

Wellbeck is the reason why.
LVG was getting stick prior to the game in the media for getting rid of him, and our club legend Moyes said that he would have kept him.

Obviously he would.



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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:52 pm

We rode our luck.
We gutted it out a tough win.
We were totally dominated

Theses and plenty of other terms could be used to describe Saturday’s game, however I would also offer that the way we played against Arsenal has become the “blueprint” for beating them, especially at the Emirate, over the last few years. Effectively we played seven on defense (plus Super Dave in goal), packing our half and nullifying runs into our penalty area. I have always considered Arsenal to be a quick team but not especially a fast team, they also tend to think and play in a very lineally fashion – we do this which forces the opponent into doing that and then we do this, etc etc. If Arsenal score early then they are a very different team, however if they do not score (thank you David de Gea) they become very frustrated. When a team doesn't respond the way Arsenal want or expect they do not have too many options and so to breakdown an opponent who is prepared to defend and absorb pressure Arsenal need to commit more and more players forward and that leaves them open to a counter attack. This style of play (nothing close to this drastic) is how we have played Arsenal at the Emirates for the last few years and one of the reason that Rooney has had a fieldday against them.

For all of last season I was hoping for a game where we played like an actual team, with a plan and a purpose. Saturdays game was a true team effort where the team effort was much greater than the sum of its parts. There were plenty of individual errors but there always someone there to take up the slack and fill in the gaps. If there was ever any doubt that Van Gaal has a set of balls then think which manager would start a back five of a winger, 25, 20 & two 19 year old. When the 19 year old wing back get’s injured he bring in another winger to replace him and it works out, everyone in United kit knew what their job was and were capable of doing it. With a few exceptions (DeGea, Di Maria and Rooney) this wasn't a game of great individual performances, but it was a really great team performance. If we ever get a healthy squad the rest of the premiership better watch out because if we continue to play as a team we will give them all a run for their money.


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Re: Post match discussion vs Arsenal (a)

Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:05 pm

Here is what they said on the BBC about the match, which expresses what I was fumbling to do about our defence:
in truth the United keeper made a lot of saves he would be expected to make, rather than any truly outstanding ones.

Or as Van Gaal put it: "Most of his saves were from outside the area and from that distance the goalkeeper has more advantage than the player shooting."

The biggest reason De Gea's recently dislocated finger was not truly tested was United's makeshift backline, something few people expected to be saying before this game when they saw the team sheet with the names of Smalling, McNair and Blackett on it.

A fourth clean sheet of the season looked even less likely when one of the wing-backs, Luke Shaw, was forced off after 16 minutes to be replaced by Ashley Young - who according to his manager is not fully fit.

At that stage, Arsenal were rampant and it seemed a case of when they would score, not if. But instead of collapsing, United stood firm.

Smalling, who is not viewed as natural leader, marshalled the youngsters either side of him. In front of them, Michael Carrick and Marouane Fellaini added much-needed bite to midfield.

Together they earned Van Gaal a win that moved his side up to fourth in the table - something he seemed surprised about when he was told.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/30165675" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
To me, it looked not only like the scrappy, never say die United I love, although without our old dominance as yet, but like a true team effort, with our guys knowing exactly what they were expected to do, but by and large, doing it.

Only RVP looked like a fish out of water.



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