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Colin Francis
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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:37 pm

_____________________DDG____________________

______Jones_________Smalling__________Evans____

Young___________Blind/Carrick/(Rakitic :D)_____Shaw

_____________Rooney___________Di Maria_________

_____________RVP_____________Falcao___________

No! I think it could work just fine. Except for the lack of experience in the back three, this is enough to make any team poop their pants!


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Keano
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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:22 am

The system should supposedly allow the team to outnumber their opponents in key areas of the pitch. What we have witnessed is the complete opposite. We have a flat back 5 for most of the time yet we're conceding more chances than ever. We have two strikers who rarely get involved. And we are overwhelmed/overrun in the key area of the field: the midfield. Liverpool/Southampton/Swansea simply ran through our midfield time and time again.

Is the system making us better defensively? No. Is the system making us better offensively? No. Why use it then?



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Colin Francis
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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:26 am

You are aware that Liverpool outplayed us on Sunday with 3 defenders and created more chances than we did? at the beginning of the season our attack was devastating but we just could not keep the goals out. Since then we have most of our defenders back and I firmly believe we will dominate with this system. Our players are just not mature or familiar enough in or with the transitional play. That just takes some time off course and playing different formations every week will not help our course!


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marcus leong
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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:32 am

I'm starting to believe you Colin. Am I getting crazy ?


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Colin Francis
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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:49 am

marcus leong wrote:I'm starting to believe you Colin. Am I getting crazy ?
Just a little Marcus! :laugh:


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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:01 am

Colin Francis wrote: That just takes some time off course and playing different formations every week will not help our course!
Van Gaal clearly thinks that players first need to learn to think, and that if they can't play different systems they have not learnt to do that so fail at the first hurdle.

It is kind of a variant of total football, and he is simply not going to accept players who aren't flexible.

So expect plenty of changes of formation.



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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:48 am

Let's be honest, these guys are not amateurs. They're professional footballers with well over 10,000 hours of experience playing the game. If they can't learn at least three different systems of play then there's no hope.

As Colin says, it's more the transitional play that's catching us out. The counterattacks which ironically we've traditionally always been so lethal with.



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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:10 pm

From Official site
Van Gaal explains tactical formation choice

Louis van Gaal has admitted to MUTV his hand has been forced when it comes to selecting his formation for Manchester United's recent Barclays Premier League matches.

The boss has been pleased with the work of Ashley Young and Antonio Valencia in wing-back slots but feels the attacking duo are not suited to orthodox defensive roles. With Rafael still to appear after injury, despite being on the bench last weekend, and Luke Shaw sidelined since sustaining ankle ligament damage at Arsenal, there has been a preference for a three-man central defence of late.

Young and Valencia have pushed forward to good effect, setting up goals against Aston Villa and Liverpool respectively, but the system could revert to a flat back four when Rafael and Shaw are back fully fit.

"Yeah, but as wing-backs and not as full-backs," the manager replied when asked how pleased he has been with Young and Valencia. "Now I am more or less obliged to play with wing-backs because the real full-backs, Shaw and Rafael da Silva, were not fit enough and that is not good. I have to select what I want but now I am forced to select. For a manager, that is not so good."

With Newcastle United welcomed to Old Trafford on Boxing Day, the Dutchman is still working out how best to utilise his players when they are all available. Angel Di Maria has been employed on the flanks and in an attacking role since initially shining in a more central position and the Argentinian's adaptability should prove useful in the upcoming games.

When asked about Di Maria's best position, van Gaal conceded: "We still have to find that out. It is also [about] the composition of the team, we have to look for the best team also because all of the players were injured so I could not select the team that I want."

With the Reds sitting in third place in the table and only being denied a seven-game winning run with the draw at Villa Park last time out, the fact the boss has still to name what he feels is his best XI must be very encouraging for all United fans as 2014 comes to an end.


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Maverick McKillshark
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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Wed Dec 24, 2014 5:17 pm

I said as much in the Villa pre-match:
All these back 4's with Valencia and Young at fullbacks are worrying imo. They've both done very well in recent weeks as wing-backs, but they've had the support of 3 CB's beside them. As much as I'd like us to revert to a defensive 4, I think we should wait until we have at least one proper fullback fit to play.


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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:22 am

Colin Francis wrote:_____________________DDG____________________

______Jones_________Smalling__________Evans____

Young___________Blind/Carrick/(Rakitic :D)_____Shaw

_____________Rooney___________Di Maria_________

_____________RVP_____________Falcao___________

No! I think it could work just fine. Except for the lack of experience in the back three, this is enough to make any team poop their pants!
With Mata in ahead of di Maria, this was the exact team that we played against Stoke. I thought it was as good of a team shape and structure as we have had all season playing with a 3-5-2. The wing backs closed down the space well. The centre backs stretched and offered good support going forward. We kept the ball very well, but the midfield failed us. With di Maria in the side, we perhaps will have more pace in the side, and definitely more penetration with how direct he is. Probably for Mata as well as you suggested, Colin. I just can't see us winning the midfield battle with Rooney and Mata in midfield.



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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:44 pm

I do not think the formation (3-5-2) is at the root of our problems; instead its how we have implemented that is causing us to drop point. As soon as Stoke got an early goal our mindset became not to concede another, the wing backs fall back a just little deeper and wider, Carrick falls back as protection for the back three and to act as a relief, Rooney plays deeper to help out and that leaves Mata as the link to the strikers. In effect our formation ends up being a 7-1-3.

Stoke (and others have) played off our CB allowing them to pass the ball between themselves, piling up possession time and aiding the belief that we are controlling the game. The ball moves between the CB and once in awhile out to the WB’s, Carrick or Rooney only to have the ball returned to the CB. After a few cycles of this going nowhere passing one of the back lumps the ball down the pitch hoping that Mata will be able to get and keep control. Replace Mata with Fellaini and we have had some success with this approach but without a BIG body it just doesn’t stand a chance of working. The opposition is sitting in front of the defenders clogging the middle and just hoping that we try and pass our way through them, there is no space for the pass and no one receive it if there was room. IMO to play a 3-5-2 formation correctly requires a player who is able to run at, take on and go by defenders, think of Di Maria and Herrera. This causes defenders t commit to backing off or trying to get attack the ball, either way it pulls the defense out of position and opens up lanes of attack.


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Colin Francis
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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:56 pm

Keano wrote:
Colin Francis wrote:_____________________DDG____________________

______Jones_________Smalling__________Evans____

Young___________Blind/Carrick/(Rakitic :D)_____Shaw

_____________Rooney___________Di Maria_________

_____________RVP_____________Falcao___________

No! I think it could work just fine. Except for the lack of experience in the back three, this is enough to make any team poop their pants!
With Mata in ahead of di Maria, this was the exact team that we played against Stoke. I thought it was as good of a team shape and structure as we have had all season playing with a 3-5-2. The wing backs closed down the space well. The centre backs stretched and offered good support going forward. We kept the ball very well, but the midfield failed us. With di Maria in the side, we perhaps will have more pace in the side, and definitely more penetration with how direct he is. Probably for Mata as well as you suggested, Colin. I just can't see us winning the midfield battle with Rooney and Mata in midfield.
Agree! We lose tempo with those two in there as well as some defensive capability. I was thinking as the game progressed, if only we had a player who could stand on the ball and take on a player or two.


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Keano
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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:34 pm

Herrera did everything right when he come on. Used the ball better than anyone in the middle/final third. He adds so much to the side, and I like him in this more advanced role. He works very hard without the ball which makes it easier for everyone around him.



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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Mon Jan 05, 2015 3:21 pm

I hate it.


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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:00 pm

3-5-2 is better than sex !



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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:53 pm

Your having the wrong kind :laugh: :laugh:


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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:21 am

it's probably even worse than that



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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:44 pm

For me it's obvious that LvG wants to play a 4-3-3, he's loud and clear every time he's been asked, when the team is unbalanced because of the injuries he prefers the safer option. To play a Dutch 4-3-3 is a big ask from the players, everybody attacks and defends together, the players move around and attacks open space where the ball is played on instinct. To build that instinct you need a lot of practice and playing games together over a period of time.

Before the season LvG talked about 8 weeks, but LvG are a manager who don't rotate much on the team, he's like his former assistant Mourinhio, he likes to play the same team week after week. With that in mind he predicted it would take around 8 weeks. This Christmas was the first time he could play the same 11 two games in a row, even though this was a game he would have rotated on because it was less the 48 hours since last match, but this was the only 11 fit enough to play. Who could have predicted that?

LvG became very result focused when all the injuries hit us, as with the Dutch national team, he improvised when the team was unbalanced. He managed to take the Dutch team to a sensational semi-final in the World Cup, 6 months later he's on third place and have 11 unbeaten matches in a row in the hardest league in the world, with a historic high numbers of injuries, in a team who where in big problems after last season. No doubt about this guys ability to improvise.

We will play 4-3-3 sooner then later, we will the day LvG are sure we master it, only then will we see what this team can do when firing on all cylinders.

After all, yesterday Louis van Gaal revealed a vision of Manchester United ruling the world.



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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:50 pm

everyone literally fit.. and still played it.

is it just me who hates it?


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Sia
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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:54 pm

3-5-2 has to stop. it make us poorer, and it makes us leave more quality players out in order to make room for that third pathetic central defender.

moyes out



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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:50 pm

I've done sooo many Anti 3-5-2 posts that I can't be bothered now! Change the formation & if then we don't get the results then our team is still not complete & changes need to be made. It's that simple.


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ivandaman
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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:14 am

(On Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:15 am)ivandaman wrote:The system is retarded.
Still retarded.


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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:43 am

IMO its the poorest Ive seen United play in my time watching us. It gives nothing and we dont have the centre backs to pull it off or the wing backs, and the only cm we have who can pull it off doesn't get a start for some unknown fornicate reason.

The best player we do have thrives in a 4-3-3 and we can build that system around him while accomodating the rest of our attacking quartet quite easily

I remember when we were getting LVG I was excited for the aura and experience he was bring but I said he can shaft his 3-5-2 and leave it behind but sadly that never happened

fornicate knows why hes persisting with it


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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:23 am

ivandaman wrote:
(On Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:15 am)ivandaman wrote:The system is retarded.
Still retarded.
It won't stop being unless we buy players specifically for it. Which would mean a massive overhaul of what we've got. And that won't happen.

So if we keep using the system, it will always be square pegs and round holes.


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Re: The 3-5-2 System

Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:47 am

The only reasoning I can come up with is that perhaps LvG knows full well that we're not entirely well equipped to play the formation and yet he's training the players and making them use it regardless since it is his long-term vision and has a view towards shipping out those not up to scratch and replacing them at the end of the season. At least then those remaining will have had a whole season to become accustomed to the new approach. If this is indeed the case then it's certainly a risky strategy as we're in danger of missing out on CL football again next season, but if he can finish in the top four this term then his apparently stubborn attitude over the formation could pay dividends next year when he brings in players he finds more suitable, as by then the team as a whole ought to be well practised in how he requires them to play.
Last edited by Maverick McKillshark on Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.


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