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Leeds United in a Pre-Season Friendly.
Wednesday 17th July 2019, KO 12:00 BST.
Short Back and Sides
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Mohammed Ali

Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:05 pm

Looks like he's not gonna live much longer.
On a life support. He's been bad for a while now tbh


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Martin
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Re: Mohammed Ali

Fri Jun 03, 2016 10:39 pm

I saw him doing some public appearance a couple year ago, might have been the Olympics and he looked frail then.

btw Ste you on PS4/FIFA?


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Dante
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Re: Mohammed Ali

Fri Jun 03, 2016 11:20 pm

Yeah, he's not been well for years. A shame, at east his family will be with him.


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Martin
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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:11 am

https://twitter.com/latimespugmire/with_replies

"Very, very grave"
"It could be hours"


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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:24 am

Gone...


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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 7:27 am

Confirmed.
It had been on the cards for a long time. I'm surprised he lasted this long tbh.
Here come all the Facebook boxing experts though.


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marcus leong
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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:20 am

RIP


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Martin
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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 9:15 am

Short Back and Sides wrote:Confirmed.
It had been on the cards for a long time. I'm surprised he lasted this long tbh.
Here come all the Facebook boxing experts though.
I know what you mean. Wasn't considered the greatest in boxing circles. That was Ray Robinson. Ali was a cultural icon though.

You'll see a similar thing happen with football when Pele dies (though obviously he is nowhere near being as big an icon as Ali)


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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:42 pm

I suppose if defining greatness was an exact science then any undefeated champion like Rocky Marciano,Floyd Mayweather etc could be considered greater than Muhammed Ali but It isn't... it's an opinion.

Muhammed Ali was a great champion who transcended boxing like no other.
He refused to fight in America's murderous Vietnam war knowing he would be stripped of his titles and sent to prison.His stance against the war spread throughout America and helped lead to America's withdrawal.
He was a lifelong campaigner for civil rights and justice all over the world and idolised and worshipped everywhere.
That's why he was the greatest in my opinion.

Rest in peace Muhammed Ali you were the Greatest. (f) (l)



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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 12:52 pm

That's pretty much what I said though. The casual boxing fan/people who don't even watch boxing rank him as the greatest boxer of all time based on things other than athletic accomplishments.

It's absolutely lazy and it happens with a lot of things. If you polled the general public and asked who was the better musician out of MJ and Prince, MJ would actually win.

It will happen with Pele too. I'd honestly go as far as to say Pele wouldn't even scrape into a top ten tbh.


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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 1:33 pm

Martin wrote:who was the better musician out of MJ and Prince
And we're measuring this how?


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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:17 pm

Dante wrote:
Martin wrote:who was the better musician out of MJ and Prince
And we're measuring this how?
musician
mjuːˈzɪʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
a person who plays a musical instrument, especially as a profession, or is musically talented.

Prince played in the region of 30 musical instruments and wrote, composed, rearranged and produced the vast majority of the music he ever put out, including the albums and songs created for other artists such as Manic Monday, Nothing Compares 2 U... MJ did not do anything even close to this. Prince also played the majority of instruments on his albums.
Journalist Nik Cohn described him as "rock's greatest ever natural talent". His singing abilities encompassed a wide range from falsetto to baritone and rapid, seemingly effortless shifts of register. Prince was also renowned as a multi-instrumentalist. He was considered a guitar virtuoso and a master of drums, percussion, bass, keyboards, and synthesizer. On his first five albums, he played nearly all the instruments, including 27 instruments on his debut album, among them various types of bass, keyboards and synthesizers
Prince is considered by many to be one of the greatest guitarists of all time - http://verbnews.com/2015/01/in-2004-pri ... -happened/ (and many other examples of other respected artists saying he was one of the greatest)

Prince pioneered the Minneapolis Sound.

MJ needed somebody around him to get the best out of him e.g. moguls like Quincy Jones. Prince's genius was in doing everything by himself, he was the mogul.

Prince released 39 albums which works out at almost one a year, most of them in the 80s and 90s were critically acclaimed records. Jackson didn't get anywhere near this.

Despite releasing that amount of music, there is far more material in the vault, where a lot of his greatest work is held. According to accounts from people who worked at Paisley Park with him, he has well over 2,000 songs and could release an album every year for the next century. 50+ music videos, many completed albums including ones written for other people all shelved in the vault. "The Modern Day Mozart."

Prince was a musician, Jackson was a performer who occasionally created some music and was known for his dancing.
Last edited by Martin on Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 2:35 pm

I know where I'm going and I know the truth, and I don't have to be what you want me to be. I'm free to be what I want - Muhammed Ali

AAAAAAAAAAAND STILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

RIP (f)


Could a mod please correct the spelling of the man's name on the title of the thread


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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:05 pm

Not sure if Ali was the greatest boxer of all time but a good argument could be made for him being the greatest heavyweight of all time. The only other heavyweight that would rightfully give him competition for that title would be Marciano which is why the possible outcome of a fight between the two has constantly been discussed by fans for years. The dream fight that never happened.

As for Pele, well the only man to have won 3 world cups, still Brazil's top scorer more than 40 years after his retirement, etc,etc, would definitely be in my top 10 footballers of all time and tbh would rank in my top 3.

It's difficult to argue with persons about one musician being better than another because with music it all comes down to the individual listening and what the music does or means to them. Whether a particular musician can play 10 instruments and has cut 50 albums means nothing to a listener who thinks Justin Bieber is the greatest singer ever :sick:


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"Eric Cantona is a great player, but he's not as good as Ryan Giggs" - Johan Cruyff

"Maybe one day people will say I was another Ryan Giggs" - George Best

Dante
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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:47 pm

That last line is reductive nonsense Martin. You can make the argument without it.


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Martin
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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:54 pm

Dante wrote:That last line is reductive nonsense Martin. You can make the argument without it.
I would say it's accurate tbh.


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Martin
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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 3:57 pm

Devil Pikney wrote:It's difficult to argue with persons about one musician being better than another because with music it all comes down to the individual listening and what the music does or means to them. Whether a particular musician can play 10 instruments and has cut 50 albums means nothing to a listener who thinks Justin Bieber is the greatest singer ever :sick:
It's subjective to a point but (I'd say in terms of genre mainly, different styles) there is some objective viewpoint as well (how well somebody can do something, accomplishments, body of work etc).


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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 4:15 pm

Martin wrote:
Devil Pikney wrote:It's difficult to argue with persons about one musician being better than another because with music it all comes down to the individual listening and what the music does or means to them. Whether a particular musician can play 10 instruments and has cut 50 albums means nothing to a listener who thinks Justin Bieber is the greatest singer ever :sick:
It's subjective to a point but (I'd say in terms of genre mainly, different styles) there is some objective viewpoint as well (how well somebody can do something, accomplishments, body of work etc).
Fair enough, but the number of persons who can be objective with their likes and dislikes when it comes to music make up a very small minority. Still people out there who rank the Monkees among the top 10 bands ever and Davy Jones as a musical genius.


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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:09 pm

Martin wrote:
Dante wrote:That last line is reductive nonsense Martin. You can make the argument without it.
I would say it's accurate tbh.
Don't be daft. He was known for both his music and his performances.

It's like saying Bruce Dickinson is a performer who occasionally created music on the basis of Iron Maiden shows being incredibly theatrical. It's not Riverdance, the music is the point, the theatre is an addition.


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Martin
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Re: Mohammed Ali

Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:49 pm

I don't know enough about Iron Maiden to comment. The point that I was making is that Jackson was largely a performer not a musician. Regardless, plenty of musicians have theatrical live shows (including Prince for that matter) but it doesn't take anything away from their musicianship. The music he was known for he had very little input in creating. Of his three 'good' albums (Off The Wall, Thriller, Bad), the only one he wrote the majority of was Bad.

MJ was just another popstar. Not that much different to Justin Bieber.


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